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TRCjr
Not So Newbie
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 5
Location: WA, USA
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 Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: Debatable? |
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How is it possible to 'debate' Creation vs. Evolution?
Creation: If we are not to trust our own intelligence because it is inferior when compared to that of God, you obviously cannot believe in any discoveries made by that of mankind, right? All of our math and sciences are garbage, according to your logic.
Does 1+1=2? Unless you can show me a passage in the Bible that says so, it certainly does not.
In my opinion (which is all I have, since God has not personally spoken to me, and I was not alive to witness the tales of the Bible to be assured of their divine affiliation, and by trusting these without certainty would make me just as wrong as if I did not), everything about the argument supporting Creation involves circular reasoning.
The Bible teaches me indirectly to not accept it, as I can not be completely certain that it is the word of God, as he did not personally hand me the Bible.
Feel free to provide input, but understand that I am unable to accept anything you say, as you and myself alike are completely incapable of any level of understanding, minus that which God gives us directly.
But honestly, I would like to hear what you have to say. |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1749
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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Please join in discussions before starting new threads.
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TRCjr
Not So Newbie
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 5
Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:59 am Post subject: |
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I would have, but I felt it would have been off-topic and out of place in another thread.
This thread is, in a way, my response to all of the discussions that I read, and this is a representation of my opinion on the entire debate of Creation vs Evolution, and I was just hoping for the opportunity to see what others had to say about it, especially when those others are people that are experienced in the variety of opinions on the topic.
Nonetheless, this is your web forums, and I would understand if you desired to remove it.
edit: I just noticed that you are from Seattle 
Small world. |
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The Barbarian
Hamster
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How is it possible to 'debate' Creation vs. Evolution? |
That would be like debating automobiles vs. Chevrolets. You could debate creationism vs. evolution, but not creation vs evolution. Evolution is just a particular from of creation.
[/b] |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6908
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: |
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TRC, I have a question about this; you stated:
| Quote: | Feel free to provide input, but understand that I am unable to accept anything you say, as you and myself alike are completely incapable of any level of understanding, minus that which God gives us directly.
But honestly, I would like to hear what you have to say. |
To what purpose would one provide input? What meaningful discussion could possibly result given the preemptive kabash you have placed on the entire subject?
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:30 am Post subject: |
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My 2 cents, maybe 3,
I believe that God created life on this world by way of evolution. There is at least a 500 million year histroy of life on the planet.
Colter
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Micah denounced "the rulers who judge for reward and the priests who teach for hire and the prophets who divine for money." He taught of a day of freedom from superstition and priestcraft, saying: "But every man shall sit under his own vine, and no one shall make him afraid, for all people will live, each one according to his understanding of God." |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1749
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| TRCjr wrote: | | I just noticed that you are from Seattle |
Seattle is the best place in the world! Technically, right now I'm in Mount Vernon, WA. I love it up here.
People are joining discussion, and that is what this board is all about - so carry on.
As always - my two favorite sources for info on creation vs. evolution is:
http://www.AnswersinGenesis.org
http://www.TalkOrigins.org
I always suggest spending a fair amount of time on both for background on these subjects.
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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: |
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This is also a fantastic site for explaining the history of the Earth.
http://www.urantia.org/papers/toc.html#PARTIII
Colter
_________________
Micah denounced "the rulers who judge for reward and the priests who teach for hire and the prophets who divine for money." He taught of a day of freedom from superstition and priestcraft, saying: "But every man shall sit under his own vine, and no one shall make him afraid, for all people will live, each one according to his understanding of God." |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1749
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Nanoo nanoo. 
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TRCjr
Not So Newbie
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 5
Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | TRC, I have a question about this; you stated:
| Quote: | Feel free to provide input, but understand that I am unable to accept anything you say, as you and myself alike are completely incapable of any level of understanding, minus that which God gives us directly.
But honestly, I would like to hear what you have to say. |
To what purpose would one provide input? What meaningful discussion could possibly result given the preemptive kabash you have placed on the entire subject? |
I was being sarcastic for the purpose of proving a point I was trying to make, which is that by believing the Bible, I would have to not believe the Bible. |
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TRCjr
Not So Newbie
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 5
Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| The Barbarian wrote: | | Quote: | | How is it possible to 'debate' Creation vs. Evolution? |
That would be like debating automobiles vs. Chevrolets. You could debate creationism vs. evolution, but not creation vs evolution. Evolution is just a particular from of creation.
[/b] |
Yeah, technically you're right. My bad.
Other than my spelling mistakes, do you have an opinion? |
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The Barbarian
Hamster
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Since most evolutionists also agree that God created everything, we need to make a distinction between creation and creationism.
I don't see any valid claims by creationism. Do you know of any? |
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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Nanoo nanoo. |
Let me guess, that's Noah, the only righteous man in all the world, from whom life as we know it rapidly re-evolved, who after spending a year on a boat with 2,000,000 species of living things ended up drunk and passed out naked in his tent?
THE FLOODS IN MESOPOTAMIA
"The river dwellers were accustomed to rivers overflowing their banks at certain seasons; these periodic floods were annual events in their lives. But new perils threatened the valley of Mesopotamia as a result of progressive geologic changes to the north.
For thousands of years after the submergence of the first Eden the mountains about the eastern coast of the Mediterranean and those to the northwest and northeast of Mesopotamia continued to rise. This elevation of the highlands was greatly accelerated about 5000 B.C., and this, together with greatly increased snowfall on the northern mountains, caused unprecedented floods each spring throughout the Euphrates valley. These spring floods grew increasingly worse so that eventually the inhabitants of the river regions were driven to the eastern highlands. For almost a thousand years scores of cities were practically deserted because of these extensive deluges.
Almost five thousand years later, as the Hebrew priests in Babylonian captivity sought to trace the Jewish people back to Adam, they found great difficulty in piecing the story together; and it occurred to one of them to abandon the effort, to let the whole world drown in its wickedness at the time of Noah's flood, and thus to be in a better position to trace Abraham right back to one of the three surviving sons of Noah.
The traditions of a time when water covered the whole of the earth's surface are universal. Many races harbor the story of a world-wide flood some time during past ages. The Biblical story of Noah, the ark, and the flood is an invention of the Hebrew priesthood during the Babylonian captivity. There has never been a universal flood since life was established on Urantia. The only time the surface of the earth was completely covered by water was during those Archeozoic ages before the land had begun to appear.
But Noah really lived; he was a wine maker of Aram, a river settlement near Erech. He kept a written record of the days of the river's rise from year to year. He brought much ridicule upon himself by going up and down the river valley advocating that all houses be built of wood, boat fashion, and that the family animals be put on board each night as the flood season approached. He would go to the neighboring river settlements every year and warn them that in so many days the floods would come. Finally a year came in which the annual floods were greatly augmented by unusually heavy rainfall so that the sudden rise of the waters wiped out the entire village; only Noah and his immediate family were saved in their houseboat.
These floods completed the disruption of Andite civilization. With the ending of this period of deluge, the second garden was no more. Only in the south and among the Sumerians did any trace of the former glory remain.
The remnants of this, one of the oldest civilizations, are to be found in these regions of Mesopotamia and to the northeast and northwest. But still older vestiges of the days of Dalamatia exist under the waters of the Persian Gulf, and the first Eden lies submerged under the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea." UB 1955
Colter
_________________
Micah denounced "the rulers who judge for reward and the priests who teach for hire and the prophets who divine for money." He taught of a day of freedom from superstition and priestcraft, saying: "But every man shall sit under his own vine, and no one shall make him afraid, for all people will live, each one according to his understanding of God." |
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TRCjr
Not So Newbie
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 5
Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The Barbarian wrote: | Since most evolutionists also agree that God created everything, we need to make a distinction between creation and creationism.
I don't see any valid claims by creationism. Do you know of any? |
I have not seen any claims that have had enough proof to convince me.
When faced with a question such as "How did things begin?", I think we have far too little knowledge to form a reasonable conclusion.
All I'm saying is that I feel the extreme majority of people are ignorant when it comes to this subject, since many have accepted a particular religion as the definite answer.
Though, I realize that there would be a lot of confusion without them, but is accepting a potentially wrong answer better than admitting uncertainty? |
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