The Trinity & The Atonement

Steven3 · Lion King Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 1205 Location: UK

Hi Dust

Dust · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject:

Dust · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject:

composer2005 · Fierce Wolf Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 561

Dust · Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:43 am Post subject:

Hey composer,

Why do you fight against the Trinity so?

I do not have to strain my pragmatic awarness much to see that bitterness guides you. I think you would agree that you do not make much of an attempt to hide this. I don't wish to make light of your bitterness, as the reasons for it may be quite legitimate. But your bitterness is not the issue, though we can discuss that if you like.

I've provided a sound rational for the validity of the trinity doctrine, which is based on the NT Father/Son/HolySpirit concept.

I contend that your espoused view is godless.....that is....there is no acknowledgement of an infinite God in your view, nor how it is that an infinite God might make Himself known.

As far as your last post....

Christ did die in-the-flesh, just as men die in-the-flesh. Ahhh but.......He has risen! Christ defeated death, and through Him, we too can overcome death.

Your argument presents ZERO refutiation of the trinity doctrine.
_________________
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

composer2005 · Fierce Wolf Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 561

Dust · Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:58 pm Post subject:

What's that saying.......

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't........

.........well, I guess if the horse is agitated you can't even lead him to water.

Hmmm...
_________________
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

kejonn · Show Poodle Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Posts: 251

Or...you can lead a horse to water and he may drink a small bit before he realizes it is tainted.

Wink

_________________
Yasna 30.9 - So may we be like those making the world progress toward perfection; May God and the Divine Spirits help us and guide our efforts through Truth; For a thinking man is where Wisdom is at home.

composer2005 · Fierce Wolf Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 561

There you go again Dust, the Scriptures refute you every time and all you have at best here in response are 'the sayings of men'.

I appreciate that is all you can muster because your claims are spurious and of course you can not gain a shred of legitimate support for them from God's Word.

The trinity doctrine sure is a poisened watering hole and that's why no one can lead me to it because I prefer to continue drinking 'the water of life' (Rev. 21: 6, 22: 1,17) KJV and not the trinitarian 'water of death'.

Cheers!

Rocket · House Cat Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 156

I will ask my very simple question again and see if anyone can answer it.
Why would God come down in human form, preach a message to a people that have been preached to again and again and refused to believe and then have Himself die on a cross. What makes you think that's what He did. This is not in the bible. Ir says Yeshua was born of a virgin, so why do you have a problem with it. Yeshua was not God in Human form.
There is no trinity.
You better hope Yeshua isn't God, or you don't have salvation. God needed a being to be the sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin.

composer2005 · Fierce Wolf Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 561

Indeed Rocket,
Christ was a man just like us, begotten from a combination of God's Spirit power and the mortal woman Mary. Christ was and is not God nor a Godman.
Christ was the antitype / perfect EXAMPLE of demonstrating 'what he did and was required to do' to gain salvation, so that we likewise can 'follow his steps example' (1 Pet. 2:21-22) KJV and be rewarded similarly as he was.

Simple Truth not trinitarian fantasy!

Abenadar · Tadpole Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Posts: 16

Dust, your argument about the deity-switch by which Jesus could be God but still die doesn't follow logic or scripture. Having to divert from scripture when it didn't go well doesn't help your standing in a place of debate.

Your "dying in the flesh" repetition is of interest though. Is this how the fact that God can not die but Jesus did is truly justified? One dies, but only the flesh part, and for God that doesn't matter so it's cool?
So there was no need for any substantive atonement, only this inconsequential in-the-flesh deal?
You say that Jesus died in the same way any other man would? I'd agree there. But biblical death is soul death. Sheol. It is when men go to a place without thought or action of any sort. Did your Jesus-god escape this because the God part was immune and simply riding the flesh til that end?
The bible says that Jesus had to offer up prayers, cries, and petitions "to the one who could save him from death." How does that fit in with this deity switch?

How does your trinity stance, as you've been describing it here, differ from Modalism or Christomonism?

Thank you sir.

Colter · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 409

Rocket · House Cat Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 156

The teachings of Jesus come to us from 2000 or so years ago. During that time, there were Isrealietes and there were those who believed in numerous Gods at the same time or we can refer to them as Pagans.
So, when we look at the Isrealites/Jews, which Jesus and the Apostles were part of, do we see a group of people who believed in trinities? When we look at the Pagans, do we see a group of people who believe in trinities?
We do not see the word trinity in the Bible because maybe they were not the group who believed in them.

I will say this, you each believe in things that the Bible does not teach. So believe what you will, but, when the time comes and you stand before God, I pray He will say well done good and faithful servant. You did well.

Colter · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 409