What About Change??

Nobby · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 11:20 am Post subject: What About Change??

Hello Folks,
"CHANGE!" You know this can become a rather larg issue in some of are older churches.
Some get set in their ways(heh,which I would never do!)and say this the way we always did it, why change it now!
My Opinion! Churches that don't see change will not see much growth!
I said before My church is a small church, & we use to have several teenagers, and young couples in our church.
But!! All the young couples & the teenagers started drifting away! They were going to churches that offered more for young people,
or just getting bored, & dropping out!
Then all we had in our church were older people,('cept me of course)About 30 I guess,then our church began dieing litterly in 3 years 12 of our group past away. That left us with 18.
That why we need to draw the young as well as the old. Your not going to draw & keep the young with out getting their attention!
All churches should have programs for the young! To me that's why that some change is nessessary
Maybe some could add to this,or maybe have a different opinion! Let me hear your thoughts on this subject!
God's Blessing,
Nobby

[This message has been edited by Nobby (edited 01-24-2003).]

Van · Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:33 pm Post subject: What About Change??

A PIECE OF GROUND

K.C. halted his movement and paused to look across the freeway, toward the Pacific Ocean, then up to see the setting sun burning bright orange, tinted slightly by LA’s smog. He was standing on uneven ground, undeveloped and for sale. New houses were springing up on new streets to the east of the piece of ground as San Clemente grew from town to suburb.

K.C resumed his slow walk. He was walking the perimeter of the property, approximately eight acres, and praying silently as he walked. As happens when you spend more than a minute or two in prayer, his prayer deepened and grew more earnest. Without God’s hand, no church can grow spiritually and no location can help a church that needs spiritual growth. The lesson from Nehemiah is true now, just as it was during the exile. First you pray, then you rebuild the spirit, and then you start fixing up the physical plant, whether it is the wall of a biblical city or the leaking roof of a church building in California.

The sun had set and with the gathering darkness, walking became more difficult. K.C. did not notice as he continued on his way. He was asking God to use this property. He was asking God for help in finding Christians wanting to expand Christ’s ministry in Southern California. K.C took a few missteps but he did not stumble! When he reached the location of his car, he paused again and surveyed the property for the last time. Before he got into his car, he bent over and picked up a dirt clod from the earth. It was not big, it did not sparkle; in fact it was just like all the other dirt clods covering the area. And that was why K.C picked it up and put it on the passenger seat next to him.

When K.C reached home he brought the files and his dirt clod into the living room. On the entertainment center was a space and he placed the ordinary piece of dirt in the extraordinary location, front and center. There were no other pieces of dirt displayed on the shelf. K.C. had brought this clod home to remind him to pray regularly for the property.

Months, perhaps a year later, K.C. discovered that the little Church his wife had worked for, teaching Junior High School, was looking for an opportunity to grow beyond the 100 or so regular attenders. And his brother-in-law was currently serving on the governing board of the Church. K.C and his brother-in-law discussed church growth and the problems the little church was having trying to break out of a stagnant period. Besides being located off the main street in an older part of the town, the church had only about 30 parking places. Everybody had a theory about what was wrong and how to fix it, but many were not prepared to turn loose of the past, humble themselves and build on a united vision of increased impact in our area. But God had a plan and it included a piece of ground, prayer and spiritual growth.

Fifteen years later the little church had relocated to the property beside the freeway. The Senior Pastor that had set the relocation effort into motion had been called home. The young and inexperienced Assistant Pastor had accepted the challenge of working with the assembly of believers and carefully guided the church to the “promised land.” The little church has grown both spiritually and numerically. Now more than 2000 people attend each weekend. It is important to pray, and even if our reminders are as ordinary as a piece of dirt, our results can be extraordinary.

Nobby · Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:59 pm Post subject: What About Change??

Hi van,
There is so much truth that piece. Prayer is the only way we will see souls saved! And yes more than just a few moments on Sunday morning! It's only thru the work of the Holy Spirit that any church will see growth!

quote
Quote:

Without God’s hand, no church can grow spiritually and no location can help a church that needs spiritual growth.

I've heard this saying, all of my life: A church that prays together, stays together!
I firmly believe that's why my church is now growing! Praise the Lord!

I still believe we should not be so hardset
in our ways, that we can't see when we need change!
This is the way we have always done it,why should we change it now?
This is an attitude
that can slow the growth of a church.
Just my opinion, based on what I've seen in my own church. But praise God that's changed!
God's Blessings,
------------------
Nobby

Jesus wept!

[This message has been edited by Nobby (edited 01-26-2003).]

Van · Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2003 12:45 pm Post subject: What About Change??

victoria · Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 9:13 pm Post subject: What About Change??

Hi Guys:

Change..... boy that can split and cause a great deal of ruffled feathers in a church.

I grew up in a very conservative church where much change was the enemy. Have you ever noted that at times even changing the order of worship can cause some to become upset or frustrated? So what is up with that kind of attitude?

In answer to your question Nobby (don't ya know we Texans have all the answers, ha... not!) I think that in order to grow, we must be at least open to change. However, I do believe that there are things that should not change. Like matters of faith, doctrine or things that are set forth as new covenants principals like how we come into contact with the blood of Christ and what it takes to be acceptable to God. Those should be staunch beliefs and principals that we adhere to and are faithful in always.

Culturally, all one has to do to see real change is to read about methods and practices of the early church to see how vastly different we are now. Most seem to be cultural changes but not all. Some changes made must break God's heart each day.

But focusing on what I perceive as good opportunities for change would be, for instance...our current opportunities to reach the world for Him by embracing media like television, radio and even the internet. I bet the apostle Paul would have given his 'I' teeth to be able to preach using the internet. Somehow, I know he would have done that with great zeal and with Godly perfection.

Regarding youth, I feel that it is vital to Christian growth to have youth programs in all churches that keep our kids sheltered in a church enviroment. There is a world of demons and evil out there. And they are searching to capture our kid's minds and lives to destroy them. If there is an opportunity to offer a good program, let it be in our churches. All kids need good, clean christian influences and activities where they are offered alternatives to some of the dirt and sin that they are exposed to everyday.

At the church where I go, we have just an incredible youth program. One very successful one is something called, Yaweh Cafe. It is both social and bibically. Out of this, hundreds of kids have put their Lord on in baptism. The kids come together and they love one another. They have no fear about bring friends from every kind of background to Yaweh even though they may not yet know a thing about the bible or being a Christian. But they are each embraced and loved and our kids are just an awesome example of what God's love is all about and what it can do in a life. I am amazed at what they do as a group as well as individually. So please highlight youth programs.. they are good and God loves what is good, don't you think?

Finally, I do think that being a Christian for a long time can makes one afraid of change.. and not only that.. but change does seem to make people fight about really silly things. I just do not think my Savior would rule out good activities that are novel or different. I happen to think that Jesus was the funniest person at the wedding feast! And He, Himself came to change us and all that we are.

So I guess it really comes down to what we are changing and for what reason. If it glorifies our Savior and it stands the test that I try to apply to changes... WWJD, or What Would Jesus Do.... and it stands the light of that test... then I think we should embrace that change with all of our heart.

Anyway, that is my thought on change... so do not try to 'change my mind' about it all.

Love ya,
Victoria

Nobby · Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 10:21 pm Post subject: What About Change??

As Van said, and I quote "Amen."

Victoria, Thank you for great post!
Your friend,
Nobby