Homosexuality is a sin!

StElsewhere · Guest

]Nope, nowhere in the Bible does it claim that driving a car is a sin. In much the same way, homosexual activity isn't condemned (except as fornication in general, which can be avoided by hey-o letting them get married) except in the cases of temple prostitution and likely by extension prostitution in general.

So in your twisted mind...the way to keep homos from committing fornication...and sinning in they eyes of the LORD ... is to have them wed?

Because one: it doesn't condemn homosexuality and I have a strong desire to gather knowledge.
Two: because people like you are using the Bible in spite of the truth of what it says to justify your irrational fear and/or hatred.

So no matter how it is laid out before you that your understanding is wrong...you obviously don't believe what is written in it...so good ...go on about your life and leave the WOG out of it completely...You clearly don't ant anything to do with Jesus...since the most basic part of being a follower of Jesus ...is to believe His Word first...then Him...because He has put His word above His name....so why bother???..."irrational fear"...of what??? you?...Look ...even a dozen just like you in pink barets and bats couldn't put the fear of you in me...Fear is NOT of God...do I need to show you chapter and verse?

I know. Shame.

Shame? Me? You live a life of Godless shame ...and the truly sad part about it is you refuse to see it ... don't you know that every time you lay with another man...and do that which is an abomination...it sends a stench in the nostrils of the True and Living God?...each and every time ...remember that the next time!

Then why do you follow Levitical sexual laws?

I don't...I have a loving spouse... and we can make love openly in ...day in and out...to utter exhaustion ...the eyes of the True and Living God... and feel no shame... Can you and yours?

It was rampant at the time what with the Greeks, so why wouldn't He have said anything about it?

I already answered this...Maybe He did...maybe He didn't ... somethings were left to His Apostles to establish...(see last post)

Where have I attempted to show that the Bible "condones" homosexuality? It doesn't. But it also doesn't condemn it, or at least only in specific ways which aren't particularly relevant any more.

So again...why bother with it?...You clearly don't believe what it says...except with the parts you agree with...Why have and thing to do with Jesus and His word at all?

And I do live my life as I want. It's quite nice. But I think it's hilarious that you've explicitly accused me of being gay just because I'm not in lockstep with your bigotry.

Like I said...did I et it wrong?...I will humbly apologize if I am wrong...

Didn't you just say that you weren't accusing me of being gay? That was quick.

Noooo...I said did I get it wrong?
None of Jesus' apostles said anything about homosexuality. Only Paul, and even then that's questionable. Paul condemned weakness (none femininity) and "sex-men" for which we have no real authoritative idea of how to translate.

...and Paul wasn't an Apostle uh...Sherlock?

I'm not making something clear foggy, I'm making something foggy clear. None of the other condemnations in Leviticus 18 and 20 have the same structure as those which purportedly condemn homosexuality. If it was supposed to be so clear, why does it say "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman"? Why this clause? Why not just "if a man also lie with mankind" and so on? There is quite obviously something missing or it would be organized the same way.

The WOG says exactly what the True and Living God wanted it to say...who give one wit what YOU think it should say...who are you?[/b]

Well, yes. I double check all of my posts before posting them. How is it double speak? Do you have any response to the question?

OMG...How many more times do we have to circle this issue. the WOG is what the WOG is...Nothing more... Nothing less. I understand that you don't believe it...and I do...so move on

It was a general statement. It also doesn't list "men who lie with men." Do you have any response to this which actually has substance?

Look...I can end this matter like this...You can lay hundreds of mile of pipe and never be a plumber...you lay one man you are gay... and those who participate in such willing behavior...is committing an abomination before the True and Living God...I know you refuse to believe it...I get it!

The fact is that humans tend to use masculine terms for that which is ambiguous. If a gigantic animal with wings showed up, would you wait to check if it was a male or female before calling it lord? If it even had genitalia in the first place?

Who said angels have wings?...You show me where it is written that they do... SHOW ME...Dude...only 2 types of heavenly creatures have wings and they are stationary around the thrown of God...the Cheriphims...and Seraphims...Angels don't have wings...

1. Lucifer was not an archangel, nor was he even a figure within Hebrew theology.
2. Are you claiming that angels have genitalia? Why?

I didn't the WOG said the LOT saw 2 MEN...so obviously the 2 angels where clearly recognizable and describable as MEN..For heavens sake...read before your post... this is getting ridiculous!

And then it says "all the people from every corner." Just read what it clearly says, right?

Yeah and I said men were the vast majority

It's a tired old verse because it doesn't say what you want it to say but you and others just keep posting it as if it does anyway. You've done nothing to show that I've posted any "double-speak."

Of course it doesn't say what I want it to say...It says what "Thus Saith The LORD"...and it says it very clearly.. thank you!

I didn't ask you to, that would be a different thread. I'm asking you to justify your belief that the Bible condemns homosexuality, and you're failing miserably.

No...you fail to see past your own filter of trying to see some good in homosexuality...there is none...and the end thereof is death...as with all other sin for which death is the penalty.

Circular reasoning. I'm not asking you to twist His word to legitimize an ungodly lifestyle, I'm trying to get you to realize that it's not an ungodly lifestyle in the first place.

There you go again...putting more lipstick on that pig...trying to dress it up...Then if it was/is a "good thing"...why are people still in the closet? How come they all come out from being on the "Down-Low"... ?

The KJV is a horrifically flawed translation (so it's unlikely it's "true" WOG if such a thing can truly exist that is written by men) and KJV-onlyers definitely treat it as one would treat an idol.

But Ahhhh...it is a blessing to my soul...for the LORD has truly kept each and every promise He made in the same KJ bible...and I love Him because He first loved me. Cool

FFT · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:50 am Post subject:

lone-traveler · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:56 am Post subject:

ok here's a thought:

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen 5:1 This [is] the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Adam is both male and female. One body One Spirit.

Now Adam knew his wife Eve...even though they are both Man....see?

hugs
lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

StElsewhere · Guest

That your belief is, in the end, unjustifiable? Sure! I'm not sure why you're having trouble with this. It's not the text of the Bible in regards to homosexuality that's unjust, it's simply that you have no idea what you're talking about!

Why do you need the WOG 's approval for you choice of lifestyle...why bother with Jesus at all? Continue to live la vida loca ...and rock on doing your own thing...Why not leave Jesus and the WOG out of the mix altogether? ...instead of desperately trying to fine legitimization for your choices in life!...by twisting God's word shaping it to fit an ideology and/or lifestyle

Would you like to go over any of the other verses which purportedly condemn homosexuality? I'd love to leave you with nothing there too.

No...not really...you have made it very clear... you don't believe that the WOG is the WOG...and that is such a fundamental difference...I would be casting pearls before swine...to continue to discuss the very thing you don't believe in...talk about a lesson in futility Rolling Eyes

StElsewhere · Guest

Well, yes. The translators didn't know what they were doing/let their biases guide them.

...and your proof of this is?????

These problems don't show up in the original Hebrew and Greek when one reads with a knowledge of the historical context.

You see the general populus ...is lost with the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic...therefore God in His wisdom... brought His word out of the dark ages..and into English ...for His own good pleasure...sorry you don't see it that way...

I have a beef with bigots that refuse to consider the reality that the Bible does not support their intolerance of homosexuality.

Again...what does it matter to you what the WOG says? You don't believe it any way...so why care you?...How come gays only recognize intolerance when it is directed at them...but do not exercise tolerance when they are told that what they do is an abomination before the True and Living God ...Gays call it HATE SPEECH...Why? Just because we say ...the WOG says it and we believe it... My beliefs will have zero effect on you or your chosen lifestyle.

All you've got is a small collection of verses, each of which having a more reasonable explanation.

Yeh I now...the WOG doesn't say what it means ...nor does it mean what it says...I get it...enough already! Rolling Eyes

lone-traveler · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:37 am Post subject:

first we get some clay and spit on it. Then we cover the eyes so that they will learn to see the spiritual and not concentrate so hard on the physical. Then we wash the eyes and we have a clearer vision then before they were covered.

Very Happy

_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

StElsewhere · Guest

What you seem to be missing is the fact that during those idolatry practices, the ritualistic stuff that they did was dressing up as females having sex w/other males, the same w/the females. They were cross dressing, pretending to be something they weren't to worship their "gods". They were having sex in front of their altars. This is what Paul was referring to when he wrote Romans. The reason it wasn't explicitly laid out word for word like that was b/c the people who he was writing to, his audience, would have already known that. These people weren't blind. THey knew what the others were doing.

Why are you even bothered by what the WOG says???.You DON'T believe anything it says...you try to warp it into something that condones your chosen lifestyle...why bother???

Sounds a lot like a Pharisee that says, Thank you God that I'm not like that sinner over there. You are assuming that a homosexual does not have God in their life.

Oh! contrare mon frere'...for sure they DO have a god in their lives... Just not the True and Living God ...

You assume too much. You're assuming that b/c someone is homosexual that their heart is far away from God. That is not true.

Not hardly...they have gods...and many of them... But there is only on LORD ...one Faith and one Baptism!
Cool

FFT · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:06 am Post subject:

Evee · Moderator Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 642

StElsewhere · Guest

I don't. What makes you think that I think I do?

Wow...I really have to explain to you why you are insisting on stating the the WOG doesn't say what it says on the matter of men screwing men.(' Shocked

')

And still believing I'm gay? Man, you're persistent.

I know I'm just good that way(' Wink

')...you haven't denied it either... oh C'mon... you're out of the closet for the most part already...fess up!

I argue because you and your ilk's silly interpretations are affecting public policy.

WHAT??? My opinion shapes which public policy...Dude...you are starting to scare me(' Shocked

')

I struggle to imagine you can change from any lesson, in futility or otherwise, when it comes to the Bible.

Now what is it you want me to change?

The modern dogma of "Lucifer" as a figure within Hebrew theology, for starters. .. perhaps you'll be more lucid than the others which tried to defend their pet dogma.

Now we are into Luciferian Dogma... remind me again... what is the title of this thread?
[/quote] Laughing

Wait, you

think God

translated the Laughing

Bible into Laughing

English?

God inspired men to write His words ...no matter which language He had them use:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I argue because you and your ilk's silly interpretations are affecting public policy.

Again with the public policy...What public policy have I affected?...I have no public life...of any sort!

Laughing

You think it's tolerance to hold absolutely to a poor translation of a text in the face of evidence? Laughing

What care you how the WOG is interpreted...when you don't believe it is the WOG?

False. While your beliefs, specifically, may have no effect on public policy, it is the intolerant legions as a whole which do affect those with a natural orientation different from the norm.

"A Natural Orientation different from the norm"... Well ain't you special...that is the most artfully dressed up definition of homosexuality I have every heard...There is nothing "natural" about men screwing men... "natural orientation" is a man and a woman... (talk about LOL sheesh)...There you go... perfect example of double-speak!

Again, I'm still not gay. Believing it to make you feel better isn't going to make it true.

C'mon...you can tell me...I promise to keep it just between us...remember...you can lay hundreds of miles of pipe and never be a plumber...but you lay one man ...you're gay. Wink

I am so glad you had the schooling in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic...I'm proud of you...but the rest of us without such linguistic creds...must stick with the next best thing! Cool

StElsewhere · Guest

Why do you assume I don't care what the Bible says?

You don't believe what it says when it is plain and clear...for starters...

You don't know anything about me. Condones my lifestyle? You mean, like treat my husband well & my children & everyone around me, regardless of what they do? You know, live by the golden rule.

I should have said it better...condones a lifestyle you support and favor and then try to pass it off as something other than what the WOG says it is ...an abomination!...living by the golden rule is fine ...but there is no salvation in it.

Don't worry FFT. He/She's assuming I'm homosexual too. Boy, is that a laugh.

One doesn't have to be one to support and defend the practice thereof

Oh, so since you know everything (or like to think you have no more room to learn & grow & understand God a little better),

...soooo because I call homosexuality what the WOG says it is...an abomination...I lack learning or understanding? WOW...Well ain't you special!

tell me, when a homosexual is in a church singing praises to God that they have learned about in Sunday School (yes, Shocked

there's a shocker) just who are they singing praises to?

Hey I have seen with my own two eyes..so-called "Gay Pentecostal Churches"...with choirs and shouting...the whole nine yards...as shocked as I was....Then I had to step back and examine exactly what it was I was observing...(This was more than 20 years ago) ...then it came to me ...This part and parcel of hat comprises the Laodecian Church Age ...the last church age where ANYTHING GOES!...and this is what the LORD is going to do with the lot of them:

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

So 20 years later it does not shock me one bit to see people acting like they are praising the One True and Living God...they may think they are praising Him...but was He there in the midst thereof?...Hey satan can bless too!...and help you get your shout on too

I think it says a lot that my Shocked

homosexual Shocked

(shhhh, that's a bad word) sends me cards when I'm depressed telling me that God won't leave my side & to pray to Him for forgiveness when I do something I shouldn't or sits & reads her Bible at night (which, BTW a lot of "so-called" straight Christians DO NOT).

Well maybe your ...as you put it...so-called straight Christians are Ain'ts...and not Saints...ever thought of it that way? Maybe you should re-evaluate the company you keep?

You have HOMOPHOBIC written all over these pages.

You can say that... if homophobic means ... disdaining to activities of people who make a conscience decision to do that which is so abhorant to the True and Living God..that He calls it an abomination...and then try to pass that sick behavior as "Godly" ...Yes...and double Yes...even better..Amen and Amen again!...Homophobic enough for ya!?(' Cool

')

Just what do you think you can "catch" by being around a gay man or a lesbian? AIDS?

No...I practice Universal Precautions with everyone's bodily fluids...

You're living in the dark ages. I think YOU'RE the one who needs to go back & try to understand what God is REALLY trying to say b/c you obviously have it all screwed up.

You act as if I wrote the WOG...I mean I'm good...but not that good!...Plain speaking is plain speaking...on the issue of same sex anything isn't written in parable...

And just what god would that be?

The only true God there is...Jesus The Christ LORD God Almighty

YOu obviously know since you're so much smarter than the rest of us. And just for the record, your "god" is pride. And you know what they say, Pride goeth before the fall.[/quote]

Now...Madame... if you are going to quote scripture...do us all a favor and at least quote it right:

Pro 16:18 Pride [goeth] before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Remember it correctly next time... Rolling Eyes

FFT · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:42 am Post subject:

lone-traveler · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:28 am Post subject:

I find myself on neutral ground here...

God created man in his own image..male and female.
And if God is in us then what are we male/female?
Or are we supposed to judge by physical appearances?

Jhn 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

2Cr 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he [is] Christ's, even so [are] we Christ's.

1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

If two people love eachother is that evil? does it appear evil?
If two people hate eachother is that evil? does it appear evil?

I think it's a test about who is willing to judge and who is willing to let God judge.

I'm not judging...
Love is love regardless of what kind of clay it's molded into.

That's my two cents worth.
God Bless
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

StElsewhere · Guest

You're my favorite bigot.

I've been called worse and better...by better and worst!

Way to selectively ignore part of my post. You and your ilk, not just you. You on your own can accomplish little. Which I pointed out later in my post.

I've ignored nothing...you want me to see the WOG ...your way...when you really don't really believe that it is the WOG...and I steadfastly hold on two very simple things...The WOG says what it means and means what it says.

Because the segment of the population composed of people like you is affecting public policy on this subject.

So you live your life according to public approval?

Want to bet?[/url]

Show me in the WOG that men screwing men is natural!...leave Wickipedia out of it...

There are other orientations.

Oh really Sherlock...and they are.???...and by what authority?... don't faint on me ...just when it's getting interesting...

So let's tally this up.

1. Insistent that those with differing opinions are gay - potentially tongue-in-cheek.

If not gay ...supporting of the lifestyle

2. Unable to explain the phrasing of the Levitical
condemnations - why is it "thou shalt not lay with a man as you would a woman" and not simply "thou shalt not lay with a man"?

Look...why don't you just rewrite the WOG ...and arrange each verse just the way you think it should be?...Problem Solved!

3. Holds up the KJV much like an idol.

Spot On ... I take the WOG for just what it is...the true WOG...I clearly understand and accept that you don't.

4. Can't understand that by pointing out that his interpretation of the Bible is incorrect we are not implying that he wrote it.

I believe because everything His word has promised that He will do in my life...is true down to the letter...and it is an accurate historical record

There's a few more, but I'm bored now.

Another one bites the dust...heh...heh...heh...and another one's done ...and another one's gone...I'm sure you'd appreciate the authors of the song Cool

StElsewhere · Guest