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Private Bible Studies and Christian Fellowship Available - Ask Nobby
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Mojo,
| MoJo wrote: | Tbax and TwoPutt; I would ask you to stop provoking this disagreement with each other. If one or both of you you have nothing enlightening to say **on the topic,** then don't say it.
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That's not what's happening Mojo. I was having a discussion with Dust. However, it is good to see some moderation occurring. Thank you.
God bless,
2P |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1937
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Mojo,
As you wish. 
I would also appreciate it if he refrains from using my name in his posts while drawing wrong conclusions.
| TwoPutt wrote: | | I think the problem is you aren't reading what I'm putting forth here. Neither did TBax, that is why he grew so frustrated and rude in his dealing with me. |
I read and understood what he put forth, though I vehemently disagree with it, and find it extremely ridiculous, but that isn't what is frustrating. I grew frustrated with him because he lied about what I told him I believed, he nullifies scriptures, and he cannot either comprehend or admit his errors. Also he like to play the victim card which I find rather amusing.  I told him why I was frustrated and why I won't go point for point with him and he missunderstands that as well. Oh well.
If he can refrain from using my name in his posts like that then I will also refrain from pointing out his contradictions. 
Take care. |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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TBax,
I apologize for upsetting you by using your name; however I don't think I was incorrect. Regardless of what you think about me or my beliefs I purposefully tried not to be disrespectful to you. I would've liked some reciprocity, but even now I see you have trouble with that.
Perhaps we just should give each other a wide berth.
God bless,
2P |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Dust,
Where ya at?? |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5046
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Guys, I may be all wrong, but it's easy to type anothers name in your posts for what ever reason, maybe we want to become a mind reader & help them out with ther post, as though it came directly from them.
It's best knot too.
Sometimes were not not actually talking to this person but for some reason he/she thinks you're. This problem could be solved by letting the readers know who you are speaking too. Also always let us know who you're quoting!
Thanks to all
Nobby |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Nobby,
| Nobby wrote: | Hi Guys, I may be all wrong, but it's easy to type anothers name in your posts for what ever reason, maybe we want to become a mind reader & help them out with ther post, as though it came directly from them.
It's best knot too.
Sometimes were not not actually talking to this person but for some reason he/she thinks you're. This problem could be solved by letting the readers know who you are speaking too. Also always let us know who you're quoting!
Thanks to all
Nobby |
Very good advice, Nobby. Unfortunately it doesn't really address the problem.
God bless,
2P |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1937
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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TwoPutt,
| TwoPutt wrote: | | Perhaps we just should give each other a wide berth. |
Thank you. That is what I wanted close to the start of our discussion. Also when I asked you to stop addressing me, twice!
Please follow through on that idea. |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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..............Wide berth..........
Last edited by TwoPutt on Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:46 am; edited 3 times in total |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hiya Dust,
Let's get back to topic. I am not even about to peruse the 19 pages of this thread to before asking this question --
What is your take on Exodus 22:9?
"For every breach of trust, whether it is for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for clothing, or for any lost thing about which one says, 'This is it,' the case of both parties shall come before the judges; he whom the judges condemn shall pay double to his neighbor."
~NASB
The word judges is the word elohiym, which I am fairly certain you know is plural by itself yet can be singular if the grammar denotes it. I've noticed that some versions (including the NWT) try to simply translate the word as "God" (big "g") -- NWT says [true] God in the first instance. However, the Hebrew denotes the word is referring to gods....plural.
What is your understanding of this, especially in relation to your interpretation of Psalm 82?
God bless,
2P |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 881
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Howdy TwoPutt!
| TwoPutt wrote: | | What is your take on Exodus 22:9? |
Exodus 22
9 In all cases of illegal possession of an ox, a donkey, a sheep, a garment, or any other lost property about which somebody says, 'This is mine,' both parties are to bring their cases before the judges. The one whom the judges declare [c] guilty must pay back double to his neighbor.
My take is exactly what the above English translation says. I am not a Hebrew-to-English scholar, but I do understand that certain nuances in the ancient Hebrew language have been taken into account, which is why the Hebrew term 'elohiym', as it appears in this verse, is translated 'judges'.
Modern day Jewish scholars often indicate that one must understand the Hebrew language fully, with it's arrangements, accent marks and all, in order to develop even a close to accurate translation. No doubt, God has fully enabled some with-in the body-of-Christ to translate His word accurately.
There is a scholarly reason for the subject translation (not interpretation) of the Hebrew 'elohiym', to the English 'judges'. There is not a conspiricy, there is nothing mysterious, nor is it a word-for-word translation....it's all SCHOLARLY. Trust the main body-of-Christ....we have folks who study this intently and are given power by the Holy Spirit to discern and translate correctly.
What I would say to you is.............Don't worry about it! The Lord has it covered. You understand English...so...comprehend it in English.
And like my wife says to me.....Lay-off that poor JW (Jay-Dub). |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Dust,
Good to "see" you!
| Dust wrote: | Howdy!
| TwoPutt wrote: | | What is your take on Exodus 22:9? |
Exodus 22
9 In all cases of illegal possession of an ox, a donkey, a sheep, a garment, or any other lost property about which somebody says, 'This is mine,' both parties are to bring their cases before the judges. The one whom the judges declare [c] guilty must pay back double to his neighbor.
My take is exactly what the above English translation says. I am not a Hebrew-to-English scholar, but I do understand that certain nuances in the ancient Hebrew language have been taken into account, which is why the Hebrew term 'elohiym', as it appears in this verse, is translated 'judges'. |
Well, my response would be why the use of elohiym in this instance when there is a word used in the Hebrew OT for judges already? Isn't there some significance there we should consider?
| Dust wrote: | Modern day Jewish scholars often indicate that one must understand the Hebrew language fully, with it's arrangements, accent marks and all, in order to develop even a close to accurate translation. No doubt, God has fully enabled some with-in the body-of-Christ to translate His word accurately.
There is a scholarly reason for the subject translation (not interpretation) of the Hebrew 'elohiym', to the English 'judges'. There is not a conspiricy, there is nothing mysterious, nor is it a word-for-word translation....it's all SCHOLARLY. Trust the main body-of-Christ....we have folks who study this intently and are given power by the Holy Spirit to discern and translate correctly. |
Well, I'm certainly not suggesting a conspiracy. However, to dismiss this as simply a scholarly interpretation of the Hebrew-to-English is seriously lacking in my opinion. See my comment above.
| Dust wrote: | | What I would say to you is.............Don't worry about it! The Lord has it covered. You understand English...so...comprehend it in English. |
Dust, my friend, I'm not worried at all.  I am also confident the Lord "has it covered", yet the use of elohiym is certainly interesting in the context. It is either a significant point or a scribal error. To brush it aside as a scholarly interpretation is just not a persuasive argument.
| Dust wrote: | | And like my wife says to me.....Lay-off that poor JW (Jay-Dub). |
<Sigh> I know.
God bless,
2P |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 881
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hey TwoPutt,
I don't know what your looking for. I trust the English translation, especially when considering the context.
God put Moses in an elohim-like postion....judging the people of Israel. Moses later appointed others to assist him in judging. Perhaps a Hebrew notation-mark or some arrangement of Hebrew words or a combination of both make it clear that the word 'elohiym' refers to the god-like position of judging or god-appointed position of judging. It dosn't matter to me....I trust the translation. I don't see it as being some key to a deeper mystery. |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Hi again Dust,
| Dust wrote: | Hey TwoPutt,
I don't know what your looking for. I trust the English translation, especially when considering the context. |
I'm looking for something in your interpretation of the use of elohiym in Psalm 82 in comparision to its' use for judges in Exodus (or even Moses being as 'a god' in the eyes of pharoah). You want to make the elohiym of Psalm 82 some kind of beings possessing 'deathlessness' (your term I believe). I just wanted to see what you did with the use of elohiym elsewhere when obviously not referring to God Himself.
| Dust wrote: | | God put Moses in an elohim-like postion....judging the people of Israel. Moses later appointed others to assist him in judging. Perhaps a Hebrew notation-mark or some arrangement of Hebrew words or a combination of both make it clear that the word 'elohiym' refers to the god-like position of judging or god-appointed position of judging. It dosn't matter to me....I trust the translation. I don't see it as being some key to a deeper mystery. |
Not a mystery, but certainly a deeper meaning than a simple reading of someone's translation (and hence, interpretation).
God bless,
2P |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 881
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Howdy TwoPutt,
| TwoPutt wrote: | | I'm looking for something in your interpretation of the use of elohiym in Psalm 82 in comparision to its' use for judges in Exodus (or even Moses being as 'a god' in the eyes of pharoah). You want to make the elohiym of Psalm 82 some kind of beings possessing 'deathlessness' (your term I believe). I just wanted to see what you did with the use of elohiym elsewhere when obviously not referring to God Himself. |
All that I have said of Psalm 82 is in Psalm 82, not really my own interpretation. As far as a biblical comparision of Elohiym (The one and only True God), vs. elohiym (What some may view as God, but really isn't) I refer to the song of Moses as spoken of in Revelation 15:3.....
And they sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb, saying, Mighty and marvelous are Your works, O Lord God the Omnipotent! Righteous (just) and true are Your ways, O Sovereign of the ages (King of the nations)!
The entire song of Moses is found in Deuteronomy 32:1-43. Specific to the comparision, I highlight Deuteronomy 32:39....
See now that I, I am He, and there is no god beside Me; I kill and I make alive, I wound and I heal, and there is none who can deliver out of My hand.
This verse alone shatters to pieces the NWT rendering of John1:1. A writing produced by the vine of Sodom, and is from the very fields of Gomorrah. |
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