JW,s have a separate forum. Any particular reason?

Zathrus · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:14 am Post subject:

AMK, the site is not owned by a religious organization. That's probably good. People from all spiritual walks visit here, from mainstream denominational people to JW's to Seventh Day Adventists to eastern religion... all kinds.

And the JW forum was not created for the purpose of villifying JW's. There are mainstream Christians here who feel the teachings of the JW organization are misleading to the point of causing eternal damnatioin. The whole subject came up only after members of the JW organization began posting here and proclaiming their teachings. Of course, that got a spirited response, especially from a few here on the board. After a while, a forum was created especially for discussions relating to all things JW.

AMK · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:20 am Post subject:

Well thankyou for that Smile

Do you know who owns the site then?

Zathrus · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:01 am Post subject:

AMK · Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: Still waiting :-)

Yes, I am still waiting Laughing

I still don,t know who ownes the site? When I say who I am more interested in the background and the present status of the person/Persons than who they actualy are by name Smile

OrdinaryRadical · Tadpole Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

Vibrate · Little Hamster Joined: 12 Apr 2008 Posts: 77

God is the source of everything, and His Way is the only true Way. So any other way of thinking is a cult.
I don't agree with the view that Christianity is a cult that sprang out of Judaism. This sounds relativistic. The fact is that Judaism is a dispensation of the Way, and Christianity is also a dispensation of the Way. They are the same tradition.
A cult exists when a group of people start putting other sources in the place of God, to some degree. Personally, I suppose that only God can be the judge of what group is or is not a cult, since only He can look into the heart to see whether he is at the center.
I mean, none of us is perfect, as far as the way we live. So someone could be justified in saying that each of us has his own cult. Then again, if we follow God and truly know Him, then despite our condition, we know that we are living the true Way. I suppose this whole talk about which group is or is not a cult is not really worthwhile. But I am comfortable saying that I can recognize a lot of cultishness, and wrongness about the JW.
They are so dry! They talk about God and the Gospel like something they memorized, like eating your vegetables, you know... they don't seem to like it, but they're just doing it because they've been told it's the thing to do. When I talk to JWs or other cultish sounding people, I don't get into doctrinal debates like Trinity or whatever; I just ask them to stop talking doctrine for a sec and explain to me in simple, natural, human terms what they know about God. That's the place to start. Then once I can tell that you have love and light inside, we can go from there, and the discussion will flow, since we'll have a context.
Let's not build our conversations, or our analysis on the sand. Let's talk about life, and love and truth - then we'll be building on the rock. These issues of doctrine are for dividing, not building. I mean, look at it this way, there are no two people in the whole world that agree on every single part of doctrine. So let's not quarrel. I think this question of which group is a cult is all about quarreling and divisiveness, and we need to think about uniting instead. What do you think?

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1942

Vibrate,

Vibrate · Little Hamster Joined: 12 Apr 2008 Posts: 77

Thanks for that response. Of course, we need to be careful not to judge how other people carry themselves, since we're all different. By no means did I intend to suggest that we should go around shouting, or hugging everyone. Clearly there is a normal, balanced way to act.
I agree totally that emotions should be subordinate to accurate knowledge, and when we're talking together, especially with strangers, it's good to keep things cool. But this phrase "accurate knowledge" is again so dry. What does that phrase mean anyway?
For me, I love God, and that's the key to my faith. Faith means confidence, and power, and authority, and freedom, and God's word means the fullness of life.
Let me ask you and other JW's a simple question: Is the essence of "accurate knowledge" something intellectual, or something you "know" in your heart and spirit (please note I am asking about the ESSENCE)?
I'm not looking for people to jump up and down, or scream, or anything in particular. To each his own. But I am after all a human being, and I know a human being when I see one. All I want to know is that your "accurate knowledge" is something that inspires and touches you as a complete human being, from the deepest levels of your heart, and even into every thought.
Can't you tell when what someone is saying comes from their heart, and they really feel strongly about it, at that moment? True teaching of God's word should be spontaneous. Your understanding of the precepts should be intuitive, not learned by rote, or merely academic. I remember that the religious leaders were stunned and bewildered about this element of Jesus' ministry when he used to teach. He talked about it like something he knew intimately.
True Christianity is not a religion; it's a relationship. Imagine someone proposing to a woman talking about "accurate knowledge" of wanting to marry her. Well, the Church is the bride of Christ. Evangelism is supposed to be an act of worship and devotion. See what I'm saying? Why is James Brown the Godfather of soul? Why not Barry Manilow or Paul Robeson? Got soul?

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1942

Vibrate,

Hi, Very Happy

Vibrate · Little Hamster Joined: 12 Apr 2008 Posts: 77

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6845 Location: USA

Vibrate · Little Hamster Joined: 12 Apr 2008 Posts: 77

That's true. But what I have said is also true though. I don't see any contradiction.
My problem with calling some organization a cult is that it is an act of aggression to call them names. I would be very surprised if there weren't at least some true Christians who consider themselves to be JW's. Remember that God agreed with Lot's reasoning about sparing the city even for one just person (of course in that case there weren't any just, but I'm sure you get my point). A true Christian can believe a whole lot of wrong things and still be a disciple of God. So doctrine is not the key to truth.
Correct doctrine is of course extremely important, and I do not mean to suggest otherwise. We need to practice rightly dividing the word of truth, and learn to judge as God judges, without partiality. So, as this very site rules indicate, let us attack the ideas and be careful not to attack, or to appear to be attacking, the people who hold those ideas. I think it's a big mistake to ever label someone as a cult member, or to label a group as a cult. Leave that to God; He will decide.

Vibrate · Little Hamster Joined: 12 Apr 2008 Posts: 77

I suppose that the true definition of a cult is any system of organization that is not natural, which was not ordained by God and created. So all cults are essentially illusions. Examples would include all the countries in the world, all existing political parties and regimes, and all churches, including the JW.
But like I said, it's mean to call them a cult, and it is not progressive. I think we need to appreciate these groups for the good that they do, instead of looking at what they are not, we need to appreciate what they are. These cults exist because there was a market in place, which allowed them to exist. They are simply supplying a product that is in demand, and they cannot be blamed for the fact that people are lost and confused and looking for leadership, and for a direction in their lives. That's nobody's fault; it's just the way things are.
Instead of criticizing and calling them names, we need to lead the people in truth. I see JW and the other churches as just a cry for help, so help them. Surely, we do need to note that these groups are cults, but to teach them we need to focus on what they are, and who they are, instead of who they are not.
Remember, the Way is not a religion, or a law to obey, or a system written in stone. The way is a living faith, a way of life, a relationship. When we relate to people we do not call them names and seek to divide them. We try to help them. So let's not get too caught up in calling people cult members, and on the other hand let us not be afraid to call JW and all other churches cults.

Pete · Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:28 am Post subject:

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1942

Cult has a broad definition that can encompass any religion. Among the negative connotations are the general, which read:
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

American Heritage Dictionary
2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.

John 14:15 “If YOU love me, YOU will observe my commandments;

Who follow Jesus commandment to preach and teach people the Good News of the kingdom? Who follow the first century Christian's example of going house to house?

Acts 5:42 And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.

If believing the truth and following Jesus makes us a cult, so be it. Confused or disgusted

If not going along with what the world considers orthodox, like the pagan teaching of the trinity, makes us a cult, so be it. Confused or disgusted

However, orthodox should be what God approves, not what is accepted by the majority of men. Very Happy

Like Pete showed.
Matt 7:13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

I believe this use of the ambiguous word "cult" is an effort to smear the truth in God's word. It also isn't a new phenomenon.

Very Happy