The Role of the Woman!

Nobby · Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 4:06 pm Post subject: The Role of the Woman!

I was wondering since this board covers much of the world!
How much difference is the role of the woman in church, thru out
the world?

Da Blonde Bombshell · Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2003 2:35 pm Post subject: World Cafe

I knows in Latin America at least like in the U.S. but even more so religion is considered a woman's sphere culturally. The same is true in Catholic parts of Europe. This makes women possibly vulnerable to predatory male clergy, a problem the church has which makes the priests and alter boys stuff pale in comparison. OTOH the opposite is true. My Dad is a Protestant minister. He is not bad looking for a chubby middle aged guy, but, women like him often because he is sensitive and caring and often he's had to deal with transferrence where some in unhappy marriages imagine they are married to a guy like him. Once, he said after I was an adult, a woman he was suppossed to be counseling ripped off her clothes in his office. He panicked and called for my Mom who was practicing on the Organ in the sanctuary nearby. They got her clothes back on and calmed her down. Now he never counsels women by themselves without my mom or someone else he trusts in the building at the time.

It is interesting that in Latin America, Italy, Spain, and Portugal, as well as heavily Catholic states like Rhode Island, Massachusetts, and New Mexico, men are oten anticlerical but women are heavily into the church .

Nobby · Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:03 pm Post subject: Wow!

Can't say I blame your father, for being a bit cautious Exclamation

After an embarrassing experience like that Embarassed

PS: I like your pix. But it's hard to find a handsome pix like mine! Laughing

Fake · Tiger Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 862

Nobby · Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:26 pm Post subject: I've done went over the edge!!

Manushka

I'm a young african american woman of Haitian Decent. I attend a Baptist church where women are encouraged to express themselves with song and praise but aren't allowed to preach a sermon. Is it wrong for a woman to preach to a church? I read in the Bible, and I can't find the exact scripture now but..., it said something like woman are supposed to remain quiet in church and ask their husbands questions at home if they had any. This was in the Old Testament, I believe. So where do women stand now? I'm renewing my faith in Christ and I want to be an active member of my church by testifying and letting people hear my story. I don't want to remain silent. How can I prefess my love and not commit sin, if it is a sin? Question

Zathrus · Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 9:28 am Post subject:

Manushka,
Interestingly, I just heard someone comment on the passage you're referring to. It seems that not allowing women to speak in the synagogue was a 1st century Jewish practice. Paul, who wrote the passage, was very careful about not putting any sort of stumblingblock or reason to reject the gospel before his fellow Jews, because he wanted them to be saved if at all possible.

So it was a cultural thing in 1st century Israel, and was only observed in the churches to lend credibility to the message of Christ in the Jews' eyes. It's not a commandment of God or anything like that.

Manushka · Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:04 pm Post subject: THANK YOU

Thanks a lot Zathrus!

You helped me so much! May God Bless you! Smile

Nobby · Last edited by Nobby on Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:25 pm; edited 3 times in total

Fake · Tiger Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 862

1 Cor. 14:34-35 is the passage you're looknig for Wink

Fake

Nobby

Thanks Fake. Wink

Peace

Fake · Tiger Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 862

Women are singled out as inferior in the Bible. The view of women is at times deeply scary.

If a woman gives birth to a girl, she's unclean twice the time as if she gave birth to a boy (Lev 12)
A woman is in adition unclean for aproximatley 14 of 28 days per menstruation cycle. (Lev 15:19-28, Ezek 18:6) To purify herself she must make a "sin" offering (What? sin? It's a sin to menstruate???) (Lev 15:29-30)
Only males can enter the covenant, since it do require the mutilation of one's penis.
Adam blames Eve about HIM eating the forbidden fruit (Gen 3:12)
Eve's curse for Adam eating what he KNEW he shouldn't, is that Adam is to rule over her (Gen 3:16)
Lot offers his virgin daughters to strangers, so that his male guests may be unharmed (Gen 19:8 )
Wife's are listed as their husband's PROPERTY, and that is AFTER the house (Ex 20:17, Deut 5:21)
God stipulates how to sell your daughters (but not sons) as slaves (Ex 21:7-11)
Miriam, who spake against Moses is temporarily made a leper, but Aaron, wo is equally guilty is not punished (Num 12:1-10)
Moses enslaves 32,000 virgins (Num 31:18, 35)
Israelites of the Jabesh-Gilead tribe are slaughterd by other Israelites, so they can get wifes (Judg 21:16-32)
A woman that is divorced is as unclean as a "prostitute" (Lev 21:7, Ezek 24:1-4)
A woman cannot remarry her first husband has she been married to another man in between (Deut 21:10-14)
The rules on how you take a captivated woman as your wife, and what to do if you later decide you didn't like her after all (Deut 21:10-14)
A raped woman must marry her rapist, and the rapist has to pay a fine to the woman's FATHER, not to her. (Deut 22:28-29)
If a man has sex with the slave of another man, the slave shall be scourged, but the man will be forgiven for a sacrifice (Lev 19:20-22)
A man can divorce his woman, but she cannot divorce him (Deut 24:1, Jer 3:8, Isa 50:1, Matt 19:9, 1 Cor 7:10, Rom 7:2-3)
If a man even suspect his wife to have been unfaithful, he can force her to undergo the ordeal of Num 5:11-31)
Saul uses his daughter for his own purpouses, by giving her to David (1 Sam 18:21)
Absalom engages in sexual activity with his father David's concubines to insult David, and David punishes the concubines by put them in prison for life (what???) (2 Sam 16:21-22, 20:3)
David buys Michal from Saul (2 Sam 2:13)
Amnon loves his sister Tamar until he rapes her, then he casts her out (2 Sam 13:1-17)
God give Hosea the order to buy a halot (Hos 1:2, 3:1-2)
God promises to punish the men by having their wives ravished (WHAT????) Isa 13:16, Zech 14:2)
The woman is below the man (Gen 3:6, 1 Cor 11:3-11, Eph 5:22-33, 1 Pet 3:1-6)
Women should cover their head whilst praying, men shouldn't (1 Cor 11:5)
Women may not speak in church (1 Cor 14:34)
A woman is "snares and nets, her hands are as bands" (Eccl 7:26-29)
Never should a woman have autority ove men (1 Tim 2:12)
Abraham casts Hagar and Ishmael out, leaving them destitute (Gen 16:6, 21:14)
Abraham sends away his concubines and children (Gen 25:6).
To please God, the Jews abandon all their foreign wives and children (Ezra 10)
Jesus rejects his mother (Matt 12:48, Mark 3:33, John 2:4)
Jesus requires a disciple to hate his father and mother (Luke 14:26; Matt 10:37)
Paul's anti-marriage sentiments (1 Cor 7, which contradicts Gen 2:18 )
Abraham prostitutes his wife to Pharaoh and to Abimelech so that he will be allowed to pass safely (Gen 12:11-20, 20:1- 16)

All this, and women still buy the Bible? I'm amazed Shocked

Fake

larryjf · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:09 pm Post subject:

Manushka,

There are a couple of verses that talk about women's role in church as you have mentioned.

1 Cor 14:34-35 -
Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says. If they have any questions to ask, let them ask their husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in church meetings.
In the context it does seem this was because women were asking questions and disturbing the service.

1 Tim 2:11-13 -
Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly. For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve.
This seems to bring up the reason for men to have authority in the church, going back to Adam and Eve. And, at first (as Fake might think) this seems to be a slam against women - but we must take the whole of scripture into consideration.

Paul also wrote the following -
1 Cor 11:8-12 -
For the first man didn't come from woman, but the first woman came from man. And man was not made for woman's benefit, but woman was made for man. So a woman should wear a covering on her head as a sign of authority because the angels are watching. But in relationships among the Lord's people, women are not independent of men, and men are not independent of women. For although the first woman came from man, all men have been born from women ever since, and everything comes from God.

So here we see how God works equitably - The first woman came from man, but since then all men came from a woman. We also see that in relationships within the body of Christ, women are not independent of men AND men are not independent of women. We are all parts of the same body, but we are not all the same part.

Just because we are given different functions does not mean we are 'less' than people with other functions. Men were not given the job of birthing babies, does that mean men are less than women? In the same way, just because men are given the job to lead churches does not mean that women are less than men. Also keep in mind that the christian family is very important to God. Raising Godly children is of utmost importance to Him. If the man's job is guiding the church in the Spirit, certainly the woman's job is guiding her children in the Spirit. I think it is a shame how many people think this means that women are considered lower than men. That's obsurd since women have the more important job.

Yours in Christ.

Manushka · Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 6:31 pm Post subject: THANKS AGAIN!!!

This discussion site is awesome! Thank you Larry, Nobby, and Fake! you guys are great! You all have great perspectives. I need to get better at scriptures Wink

.

I really appreciate your help. I will continue to call people to Christ and praise him name! Very Happy

childofthelight · Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:06 am Post subject: Women's Role

I agree with larry all the way. This is one area that is judged and discarded because the world's culture creeps into the church. Also in the passage is the issue of head covering-another discarded doctrine. Why is it that women don't cover their heads now (within the last 50 years), but we still take seriously the Lord's Supper which is in the same chapter? The worldliness of the church.
The principle is that women are not to usurp authority over men. This is only a challenge because of culture, but scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching-regardless of how feminist American culture may become.