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chop14u
Newbie Alert
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject: Is something going wrong with todays Churchs? |
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It is my goal to post this subject on every site I can in the hopes that somebody might start speaking on it more.
Out of many of my friends, I have found a trend of people who truly love God, but have major issues with the establishment of many of today’s churches.
I have for years felt like the church has become more of the “Business of God” than “Doing God’s Business”.
I am a Christian and love God more than I have ever in life. But I understand my walk (And no I am not Gay or anything like that) and felt that it was not easy being accepted in many churches because of the life I lived before. As well I have friends who even fear going to a church because of these same issues. If you ask me, something is going wrong when people fear going to a church. But again I ask, is it me, or am I seeing something wrong. |
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eleven
Lion King
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1396
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Suggestion:
Instead of going to church to see what you can get out of it, try going to church to see what you can bring to it.
You are there to worship the Father who loves you.
Do that, and all else will fall in place. |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5047
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Hi eleven,
That's a right good piece of advice! Amen!  |
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ChristianWoman1
Fierce Poodle
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 286
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Nobby wrote: | Hi eleven,
That's a right good piece of advice! Amen! |
I second that Amen |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6842
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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I have to add to that Amen.
I've struggled with churches throughout the area for the very same reason, until I learned that valuable lesson given to us by eleven. |
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luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1132
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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I go to church for what I get out of it. I learn about God and His will, I learn and am better able to teach my child how God expects us to behave and treat others.
Even though I go for myself and my family, it has positive implications for those around me.
I know that there is no perfect church. How can there be when there are no perfect human beings?
Still, a lot of churches have a lot to teach and offer.
Luv |
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chop14u
Newbie Alert
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| eleven wrote: | Suggestion:
Instead of going to church to see what you can get out of it, try going to church to see what you can bring to it.
You are there to worship the Father who loves you.
Do that, and all else will fall in place. |
I do understand the idea of adding to the church. And I myself understand that this is only done by someone who has something to offer. My comments are based on the view of a person in search of a start, or a new begging.
Let's not pretend that for many who want to come to the church because they are in search for something have something to offer the church.
How do you take a man (or woman) who is unsure of the ways of God and ask that person to add to the church.
And the sad part of it all is it becomes that person that adds to the hardships that many find in the church because they tend to just fall in place.
And I am sorry...but yes I do expect to get something out of the Church. I really do! I understand the idea of giving to the church, but just as well I expcet something as well.
If you are telling me that each of us takes a part without getting anything out or in return...I would admit I am missing something major (if that be the case). |
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ShardikSon
Alley Cat
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 176
Location: Aux Arcs
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: |
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The problem with churches today is the same problem that has dogged churches since the days of Paul.
They are full of human beings.
Humans have traits that cause dissension. They squabble over petty things, they jostle for power, they worry about the organization, they try to control, or side with those who wish to control, They gather in cliques of like-minded folks, and avoid those who are different.
The thing is, in spite of all that, God can use them to accomplish his purpose.
Ignore all the human pettiness, and listen to the word of God.
IF you find a church that is completely comfortable, you should move on, because that one has no challenge from God.
If you find one where you ALWAYS agree with the pastor, you should move on, because that pastor is not challenging you to THINK.
If you find one where all the folks always get along, then you should move on. They are far too comfortable, and you will not find acceptance, because you are an outsider. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2459
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| Well Chop14u it seems everyone has some talent on loan from God and whatever that talent is, should be offered in sacrifice to the other members of the church. |
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luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1132
Location: US
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| 45degreeN wrote: | | Well Chop14u it seems everyone has some talent on loan from God and whatever that talent is, should be offered in sacrifice to the other members of the church. |
Let's be honest 45...
Even though a person comes with a good heart, a lot of knowledge, the willingness to work hard, Gods holy spirit and a boatload of talent, churches do not allow them to do anything in the church unless they are baptized in that particular church/church group.
Luv |
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ShardikSon
Alley Cat
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 176
Location: Aux Arcs
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| luvnlife wrote: | | 45degreeN wrote: | | Well Chop14u it seems everyone has some talent on loan from God and whatever that talent is, should be offered in sacrifice to the other members of the church. |
Let's be honest 45...
Even though a person comes with a good heart, a lot of knowledge, the willingness to work hard, Gods holy spirit and a boatload of talent, churches do not allow them to do anything in the church unless they are baptized in that particular church/church group.
Luv |
um, well, mm, it ain't necessarily true of ALL churches.
The church we are going to is very open to non-members, and takes whatever help anyone is willing to offer.
We find it a really great place to go, and enjoy the people, even though we cannot say we agree with everything they are into. But this particular group is easy to fellowship with, and the message from their pastor is always from the heart, and speaks to our hearts, and challenges our minds and our assumptions.
So, even knowing that we may not ever become official members, we have been welcomed with open arms and our offers of work, labor and services are always welcome. |
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eleven
Lion King
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1396
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| chop14u wrote: | | eleven wrote: | Suggestion:
Instead of going to church to see what you can get out of it, try going to church to see what you can bring to it.
You are there to worship the Father who loves you.
Do that, and all else will fall in place. |
I do understand the idea of adding to the church. And I myself understand that this is only done by someone who has something to offer. |
 So what are you, kitty litter??
You have nothing to offer? That's impossible!
Let's stop and review shall we?
Ever see a championship parade, like when a football team is in the playoffs? People go there wearing their best costumes, cheering the loudest, singing and rejoicing with friends. And that's just for a FOOTBALL game.
So now you are going, not to meet Brett Favre, but Jesus Christ. What are you going to do in HIS presence?
What can you bring to the storehouse of God?
Nothing? NOT POSSIBLE!!! Just the thought of sitting next to your Savior should be enough to set your behind on fire.
Be the one to walk up to the Pastor after the service and tell him, I'm new here, and I really want to contribute- what can I do to help, promote, or be an involved part of this place?
You have nothing to bring? Bring a friend - you may save their life!
Bring your smile. Many people come to church troubled and in pain. Be the shoulder they may need to lean on.
Be the one to sing the loudest. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether you are at church or a funeral service. David did cartwheels in the presence of the Lord.
God doesn't ask for cartwheels, but He does enjoy a joyful noise. Who can't do that?
Become familiar with the ministries of your church.
Does your church have a youth group?
Offer to buy hotdogs and buns for their next event.
Geez Louise, the possibilities are endless.
Lord, this is YOUR house, and you asked me to feed YOUR sheep . Show me what they need (music, support, muscle, encouragement, understanding, companionship, time, transportation, whatever.......) and I will do the BEST I can to answer that call. WE are the church, and church is not just for Sunday.
Now you mean to tell me, you can't do any of these things????? Baloney!!!
| chop14u wrote: |
My comments are based on the view of a person in search of a start, or a new begging.
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Can't stay there forever. Might as well get into the game! 
| chop14u wrote: |
Let's not pretend that for many who want to come to the church because they are in search for something have something to offer the church. |
Nothing wrong with that! Jesus wants a relationship with us. Any relationship is a matter of give and take.
It's the people who go to church only to take, take, take, that eventually become bitter and quit. Good riddance! We don't need you! Who goes into any relationship with a person that is only concerned about themselves, and expect it to thrive and grow?
| chop14u wrote: |
How do you take a man (or woman) who is unsure of the ways of God and ask that person to add to the church. |
In two ways:
1) Love God with all your heart, your mind, your soul, your strength.
2) Love your neighbor (fulfill their needs) as you love your self.
If you stick with these two, the rest is easy.
Jesus has a love affair with the church. That means you.
Go to church expecting to receive, but it's impossible to be in love with someone and not give back. |
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luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1132
Location: US
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Eleven;
That last post you wrote was GREAT from start to finish.
I have been attending a new church for almost 4 months now. The last one I attended used to say they were in 'desperate need' of this service or that service. They would send around a clipboard to sign if you were interested in helping out.
I would sign the clipboards and then, the next meeting, the Pastor would get up and say they still needed help. I signed my name, address and phone number. The things that they were asking for were usually simple: help in the daycare or help in the kitchen or something like that. Never once did I get called. That told me right there that unless I were a 'member' of the church, I had nothing to offer.
Maybe the church I am attending now would welcome help a little more openly. The one I'm attending now seems a little more like the one you described that you are attending.
I am not saying that the people in the church I used to attend are bad. I think there are a lot of good people there but they do act like people who are not members have nothing to offer.
Luv |
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JonMarie
Rattlesnake
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 440
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Chop14u: | Quote: | | I have found a trend of people who truly love God, but have major issues with the establishment of many of today’s churches. |
I am one of those people. I would encourage you to read your bible, it is the Living Word of God. Seek God, seek to know Him and He will guide you. |
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eleven
Lion King
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1396
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| luvnlife wrote: |
I have been attending a new church for almost 4 months now. The last one I attended used to say they were in 'desperate need' of this service or that service. They would send around a clipboard to sign if you were interested in helping out.
I would sign the clipboards and then, the next meeting, the Pastor would get up and say they still needed help. I signed my name, address and phone number. The things that they were asking for were usually simple: help in the daycare or help in the kitchen or something like that. Never once did I get called. That told me right there that unless I were a 'member' of the church, I had nothing to offer.Luv |
Please don't assume Luv. People do make mistakes.
If however, this was an ongoing problem, you may be right. Churches can be clique-ish.
I'm gonna put out a challenge here. This country is filled from end to end with ineffective churches. It's time for that nonsense to end! God works thru us, so we have to be tougher for Him.
If your church hurts your feelings, push past it.
Remember Satan wants to see the church fail.
What better way than to get a believer to leave?
You signed your name to the clipboard and never got called. Think of every roadblock as an OPPORTUNITY. Push yourself! Get over the hurt ego (where Satan resides) and shake it off! Remember, we are in a spiritual warfare!
"Pastor, I've signed my name to the clipboard several times. I don't know why you still need help, because I'm more than willing to help. Does one have to be a member here in order to volunteer???"
If the pastor answers "yes" to this, I would be amazed.
I don't know about you, but I'm sick and tired or dusty churches, and hypocritical leadership. But unless we are willing to stick our necks out for God, nothing is gonna change. |
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