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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6805
Location: Victoria, Canada
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eleven
Lion King
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1396
Location: Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Some Quotes |
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It has NO truth to it. See, here's the common misconception that most atheists rely on, yet it holds no water.......
Are ya paying attention?
Listen closely.........
I'll type slowly so you all can follow..........
RELIGION, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, HAS LITTLE, IF ANYTHING TO DO WITH GOD!!! |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6805
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Some Quotes |
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| eleven wrote: |
RELIGION, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, HAS LITTLE, IF ANYTHING TO DO WITH GOD!!! |
I agree, and so would most atheists... So what's your point?
The fact that religion has little or nothing to do with God is hardly an argument against atheism... |
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eleven
Lion King
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1396
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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The point is, talking about the evils of religion has nothing to do with the existance of God. Everyone knows religion is nonsense. People keep pointing it out. But just because religion is an insane institution, what does that have to do with the question of whether God exists or not?
It's like pointing to an apple and saying , see, see, see, it's not an orange at all.
Meanwhile the orange has nothing at all to do with the arguement, yet it exists. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6805
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that many atheists attack religion, but there certainly are a lot of arguments against the existence of the Christian version of God.
Atheists don't spend their whole time railing against religion. In fact, much of the time I spend thinking about atheistic things is focused on critical thinking, the existence of God, and many other 'spiritual' matters such as the existence of an afterlife, morality, etc. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5913
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:07 am Post subject: Re: Some Quotes |
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| eleven wrote: | It has NO truth to it. See, here's the common misconception that most atheists rely on, yet it holds no water.......
Are ya paying attention?
Listen closely.........
I'll type slowly so you all can follow..........
RELIGION, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, HAS LITTLE, IF ANYTHING TO DO WITH GOD!!! |
So you read the first quote and moved on, I see? Try number 17. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6805
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Oh how far the office of the President has fallen over the years!
There's a good argument to be made that Jefferson was the smartest president ever, and also the only scientifically literate one. |
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rufus
Little Hamster
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 76
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | Oh how far the office of the President has fallen over the years!
There's a good argument to be made that Jefferson was the smartest president ever, and also the only scientifically literate one. |
The quote from Jefferson, Number 17, is quoted out of context. Jefferson was NOT an atheist. I suggest reading "The Religious Life of Thomas Jefferson" by Charles Sanford.
Also, Jefferson was not the only "scientifically literate" president. Herbert Hoover was an engineer. Although, that did not necessarily make him a good president. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6805
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| rufus wrote: |
The quote from Jefferson, Number 17, is quoted out of context. Jefferson was NOT an atheist. I suggest reading "The Religious Life of Thomas Jefferson" by Charles Sanford. |
Ah, but was he a Christian? No, he was not.
| rufus wrote: |
Also, Jefferson was not the only "scientifically literate" president. Herbert Hoover was an engineer. Although, that did not necessarily make him a good president. |
It's debatable whether or not engineers are scientifically literate, but I'll grant you that one. In any case, my point still stands: There have only been two scientifically literate presidents, and that is absolutely TRAGIC! They should ALL have been scientifically literate! |
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ragman13
Labrador
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 322
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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P1234567890 said
| Quote: | | Quote: | rufus wrote:
The quote from Jefferson, Number 17, is quoted out of context. Jefferson was NOT an atheist. I suggest reading "The Religious Life of Thomas Jefferson" by Charles Sanford. |
Ah, but was he a Christian? No, he was not.
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The site said | Quote: | | Top 50 Atheism Quotes |
Not top 50 non Christian quotes. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6805
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ragman13 wrote: | P1234567890 said
| Quote: | | Quote: | rufus wrote:
The quote from Jefferson, Number 17, is quoted out of context. Jefferson was NOT an atheist. I suggest reading "The Religious Life of Thomas Jefferson" by Charles Sanford. |
Ah, but was he a Christian? No, he was not.
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The site said | Quote: | | Top 50 Atheism Quotes |
Not top 50 non Christian quotes. |
Well, that particular quote was certainly relevant to the topic of atheism, even if Jefferson wasn't strictly speaking an atheist. At the very least he had extremely heretical views. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6805
Location: Victoria, Canada
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Plotinus
Tiger
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 843
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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I like Sagan too. One of the quotes on the page you link to is:
"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality." |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6805
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Plotinus wrote: |
I like Sagan too. One of the quotes on the page you link to is:
"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality." |
Just remember that Carl Sagan's definition of spirituality explicitly has *nothing* to do with religion! He makes a point of distinguishing between spirituality and mysticism/religion, and I totally agree with his viewpoint. |
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Plotinus
Tiger
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 843
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | Just remember that Carl Sagan's definition of spirituality explicitly has *nothing* to do with religion! He makes a point of distinguishing between spirituality and mysticism/religion, and I totally agree with his viewpoint.
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Fair enough. But when it comes to defining the distinction between spirituality and mysticism/religion, these distinctions are made in his writings using his definitions. But his distinctions are not universally accepted. For example, he distinguishes spirituality from magic and identifies magic and mysticism. Magic has been associated with mysticism no doubt. But my understanding of the mystic is non-magical, and in this distinction I am in very good company.
To use a more precise term here, the word magic--as in the practice of magic--usually refers to theurgic practices, i.e., the invocation of supernatural forces. I reject the validity of theurgy, as do you. If by magic or theurgy one means practices designed to circumvent physical law, then I really think this is quite distinct from mysticism. So if you want, it might be simpler to say that when I say mysticism I mean what Sagan means by spirituality. My interpretation of the word in this way has a long lineage: magic is an appeal to the irrational, but mysticism has a rational tradition that is thousands of years old.
Both (rational) mysticism and magic argue for the existence of a reality beyond immediate intellectual comprehension. But they part company after that on the question of the nature of that reality. The magician sees the otherness of that reality as antithetical to the intellect, whereas the mystic sees the otherness of that reality as a consequence of the limitations of the intellect. |
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