Carbon Credits

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

I am curious about 'Carbon Credits'...

Who actually gets to sell these things in the first place? What legitimacy do they posess for 'owning' them in the first place? Where does the money go? Who decides how it is spent? Where does that authority come from?

Please, someone tell me how these 'Carbon Credits' are any different then the Catholic selling of 'indulgences' during the 15th century.
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Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."

‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith

Ana · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:50 am Post subject:

Answers to your questions can be found HERE

Pondering · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1512

I'm with Trinity on this one....for a good answer as to why Global Warming theory is linked to CO2...

"Since allowances and carbon credits are tradeable instruments with a transparent price, financial investors can buy them on the spot market for speculation purposes, or link them to futures contracts. A high volume of trading in this secondary market helps price discovery and liquidity, and in this way helps to keep down costs and set a clear price signal in CO2 which helps businesses to plan investments. This market has grown substantially, with banks, brokers, funds, arbitrageurs and private traders now participating in a market valued at about $60 billion in 2007"

But that's right, it's Evil Bush and his friends the Oil Companies that are so invested in killing the Earth Rolling Eyes

It's market economics...they must create a market, and then a vehicle to trade, and then create "supply and demand" pressures....[/b]
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Ana · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject:

Pondering, you're with Trinity on what, precisely? All he did was ask questions and insinuate that carbon credits are like indulgences, which they are not, and as he appears to be asking his questions from a position of ignorance, obviously this comparison is formed in similar fashion.

Look, the idea behind the UNFCCC is of course to reduce global warming. Whatever the motivation behind the goal of reducing carbon emissions, however, the treaty about carbon credits was agreed to by the participating parties. There was no abuse of authority there the way there was with indulgences.

What I think is funny is how your post embodies the American attitude toward this treaty.

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P1234567890 · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject:

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

So the money goes to the UN? I didn't follow. If it does, under what authority does the UN collect 'taxes' from the United States? Last time I checked I didn't see a single person in the UN on a ballot... nor did I see where they are able to usurp the sovereignty of a country.

Also... I might add,
Is this from the same treaty where all of the signatories have had higher increases in CO2 emissions than the United States?
Is the same treaty that NONE (that means ALL) of the counties that signed it haven't even come close to abiding by its protocols or meeting its goals?
I'm not exactly sure how international treaties that we didn't sign or approve have any bearing on what happens in our country, can you point this provision out to me?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."

‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

Mistake.... I tried to edit...
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Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."

‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith

Pondering · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1512

I'll try to summarize a response...

calling bunko on the UN/Kyoto accords has nothing to do with calling global warming a hoax. "Currently", or roughly over the last 30 years, the planet has warmed by a degree or two. At the same time, CO2 levels have increased. Those two things may be related, but then again, they may not.

the Kyoto accords claim that they are related and that by setting emission standards and fining folks for exceeding those standards, you'll curb CO2 output...however, the creation of a commodities market allows for the comparison indulgences....For example, supposedly folks want to decrease the CO2 levels by discouraging things like private jets flying from say, Europe to Bali (not that the High Priest of the Church of Global Warming would do that...)...however, if I'm rich enough, as an individual or a country, I just buy "credits" from places that haven't exceeded their quota...say Rwanda.

Now on it's face, this is good for Rwanda, they get cash. And China can continue it's industrial expolosion, becuase the total global CO2 limit is capped....nice idea, but it's bunk.

And for the record, the US Senate voted 95-0 (5 not voting) NOT to accept Kyoto accords. For those that don't know, the Senate and not the President ratifies treaties...

otherwise, Trinity's points are pretty much spot on.
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Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan

P1234567890 · Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject:

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

Pondering · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1512

I'll try to make it simple:

Your position
Observation 1: Global temps have increased.
Observation 2: Global CO2 have increased.
Conclusion: Rising CO2 is the cause for rising temps

A comparative example:
Observation 1: roughly 100 Americans are killed every day in traffic accidents across the country.
Observation 2: The sun "rises" every morning
Conclusion: The rising of the sun kills 100 Americans.

See...correlation does not equal causality Wink

_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan

P1234567890 · Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: