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antiaging
Little Goldfish
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 52
Location: New Orleans LA
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 Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: Fundamentalist |
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A fundamentalist is a christian that believes in the fundamentals of the Christian faith as defined in the New Testament. [Based on the conservative protestant movement started in 1910, to oppose modernism.] Modernism was an attempt by liberals, to reconcile the teachings of Christianity with the findings of science, especially evolution.
A fundamentalist believes:
The inerrancy, infallibility and literal truth of the bible.
The virgin birth and complete deity of Jesus Christ.
The physical ressurection of Christ and all dead.
The atoning sacrifice for the sins of the World, by Jesus' death on the cross.
The second coming of Christ in bodilly form.
The way I look at it, the real believers are the fundamentalists.
If these are the fundamentals of the Christian faith, then this is what Christians are supposed to believe. |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2269
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
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I would take issue with a few of those ideas, not because of the findings of science, but because the Bible itself does not support them.
I think fundamentalists and modernists both have more homework to do before they can stand up and say they're the experts and everyone should believe what they say.
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Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
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Officially approved in 451 |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I would take issue with a few of those ideas, not because of the findings of science, but because the Bible itself does not support them.
I think fundamentalists and modernists both have more homework to do before they can stand up and say they're the experts and everyone should believe what they say. |
A point I often bring up. Fundies will say that the Bible is the sole rule of the faith, but somehow miss the circular paradox of not being able to find such a maxim in the Bible. Even so, I prefer Fundies to liberal "Christians"
And while nobody can say they're an expert, Christian fundamentalist ideals have been time tested and approved.
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What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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towshab
Labrador
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 312
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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In my experience, a fundamentalist Christian is one who believes in the fundamentals of modern Christianity, NOT what the bible (Christian or Hewbrew) teaches. That is, they believe in trinity, baptism saves, etc., none of which is supported in the GT much less the Tanakh.
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'Satan' is only real to those who don't want to admit their own personal failings. |
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Craig2uguys
Hamster
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Fundamentalist |
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| antiaging wrote: | A fundamentalist is a christian that believes in the fundamentals of the Christian faith as defined in the New Testament. [Based on the conservative protestant movement started in 1910, to oppose modernism.] Modernism was an attempt by liberals, to reconcile the teachings of Christianity with the findings of science, especially evolution.
A fundamentalist believes:
The inerrancy, infallibility and literal truth of the bible.
The virgin birth and complete deity of Jesus Christ.
The physical ressurection of Christ and all dead.
The atoning sacrifice for the sins of the World, by Jesus' death on the cross.
The second coming of Christ in bodilly form.
The way I look at it, the real believers are the fundamentalists.
If these are the fundamentals of the Christian faith, then this is what Christians are supposed to believe. |
The term fundamentalist means different things to different people. It means something very different to a Muslim than it does to a Christian. And the term Christian fundamentalist means different things to different Christians, largely due to differences in what they consider to be fundamental to the Christian faith.
Between 1910 and 1915 a series of twelve volumes was “sent to every pastor, evangelist, missionary, theological professor, theological student, Sunday school superintendent, Y. M. C. A. and Y. W. C. A. secretary in the English speaking world, so far as the addresses of all these can be obtained.” (From the preface of volume one). The expense for this (about 3 million sets of twelve volumes in paperback) was born by two Christian laymen who were not named, but Lyman Stewart was probably one of the two. The title of this set of twelve volumes was The Fundamentals: A Testimony To The Truth and it included 94 essays written by 64 American and British theologians of a very conservative, Protestant theologcal perspective. Twenty-seven of the essays pertained to higher criticism of the Bible, a form of Biblical study that had prevously been applied almost exclusively by liberarl theologians, especially in Germany, but which was in the beginning of the 20th century gaining the approval of an increasing number of conservative theologians in the United States and elsewhere.
Needless to say, these 3 million sets of twelve volumes had a major impact on the understanding of what is meant by Christian fundamentalism, and these twelve volumes were subsequently printed and sold and are still available today for a price.
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2 Cor. 5:17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. (NKJV) |
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galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 115
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Fundamentalist |
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| antiaging wrote: | | A fundamentalist is a christian that believes in the fundamentals of the Christian faith as defined in the New Testament. ... |
I was taught that a Christian Fundamentalist is a person who desires to found all of his beliefs exclusively from the Bible, and to 'reject' all forms of accumulated and accepted doctrines which are not taught directly from the Bible.
As such, I too would disagree with many of the doctrines that you have listed. |
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pastor2022
Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 725
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: |
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I would sincerely like to know which ones of those you disagree with.
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Faith is the confident obedience to the Word of God in spite of circumstances or consequences. |
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galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 115
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The inerrancy, infallibility and literal truth of the bible.
The virgin birth and complete deity of Jesus Christ.
The physical ressurection of Christ and all dead.
The atoning sacrifice for the sins of the World, by Jesus' death on the cross. |
I believe in the inerrancy and infallibility and truth of the Bible. However some parts of the Bible are figurative.
God is spirit, God has no hands, when God says that he holds us in His hands or bares His arms in our defense; these are figurative phrases.
Mary was a virgin when she conceived. Then she knew her husband, Joseph. So was she a virgin when Jesus was born? Could be, but if she was Joseph missed. And the Bible does not say either way. Why build doctrine on a topic when God does not tell us.
The 'deity of Jesus Christ', sigh, building doctrine is a great pastime and many people enjoy doing it. But when it comes to being 'workmen of the Word studying to show ourselves approved unto God' should we truly be spending so much time adding doctrine onto what God has given us? No.
Christ Jesus was physically resurrected. And we will all be resurrected, with new bodies. New bodies apparently with wiz-bang spiritual abilities. New bodies! Will this process involve our old dry bones? I do not know and God does not tell us. If our old dry bones, and dead skin and tissues are given life once again, then it would not be a new body. God's Word says that we get a new body. So will our old body be physically resurrected? The Bible does not say so. I see that we will be getting up, we will have some form of perfected new bodies. But I see no basis for doctrine to teach that our old dry bones will be made living once again.
Jesus' death was an atoning sacrifice, and it was for our sins. Was it for the World? Or for those from the world who were called by God, and who have answered God's call? Atonement is for those who believe. Otherwise everyone everywhere is atoned and sinless. But God teaches that only those who believe are saved, so not everyone is saved. |
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ragman13
German Shepherd
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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galen said
| Quote: | | Mary was a virgin when she conceived. Then she knew her husband, Joseph. So was she a virgin when Jesus was born? Could be, but if she was Joseph missed. And the Bible does not say either way. Why build doctrine on a topic when God does not tell us. |
Matt. 1:24-25
24 And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,
25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.
Happy New Year |
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galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 115
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: |
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Matthew 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife
:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
'To know a wife' is used consistently through out the Bible meaning to conceive.
Joseph did not conceive a baby with Mary until after their first child was born.
Commonly newer translations strive to use more modern word usage, but sometimes without researching how the older words were used; and sometimes it is done to conform to fit to modern doctrines. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6901
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Galen, you are incorrect.
G1097
γινώσκω
ginōskō
ghin-oce'-ko
A prolonged form of a primary verb; to “know” (absolutely), in a great variety of applications and with many implications (as shown at left, with others not thus clearly expressed): - allow, be aware (of), feel, (have) known (-ledge), perceive, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand.
Know
KNOW, v.t. no. pret. knew; pp. known. [L. nosco, cognosco, Gr. although much varied in orthography. Nosco makes novi, which, with g or c prefixed, gnovi or cnovi, would coincide with know, knew. So L. cresco, crevi, coincides with grow, grew. The radical sense of knowing is generally to take, receive, or hold.]
1. To perceive with certainty; to understand clearly; to have a clear and certain perception of truth, fact, or any thing that actually exists. To know a thing pre
includes all doubt or uncertainty of its existence. We know what we see with our eyes, or perceive by other senses. We know that fire and water are different substances. We know that truth and falsehood express ideas incompatible with each other. We know that a circle is not a square. We do not know the truth of reports, nor can we always know what to believe.
2. To be informed of; to be taught. It is not unusual for us to say we know things from information, when we rely on the veracity of the informer.
3. To distinguish; as, to know one man from another. We know a fixed star from a planet by its twinkling.
4. To recognize by recollection, remembrance, representation or description. We do not always know a person after a long absence. We sometimes know a man by having seen his portrait, or having heard him described.
5. To be no stranger to; to be familiar. This man is well known to us.
6. In scripture, to have sexual commerce with. Gen 4.
Gen 4:1 And the man knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man with the help of Jehovah.
Mat 1:25
(ALT) and he was not knowing her [fig., was not having sexual relations with her] until she gave birth to her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus.
(AMP) But he had no union with her as her husband until she had borne her firstborn Son; and he called His name Jesus.
(ASV) and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS.
(BBE) And he had no connection with her till she had given birth to a son; and he gave him the name Jesus.
(CEV) But they did not sleep together before her baby was born. Then Joseph named him Jesus.
(DRB) And he knew her not till she brought forth her first born son: and he called his name Jesus.
(ESV) but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.
(GNB) But he had no sexual relations with her before she gave birth to her son. And Joseph named him Jesus.
(HCSB) but did not know her intimately until she gave birth to a son. And he named Him Jesus.
(ISV) He did not have marital relations with her until she had given birth to a son; and he named him Jesus.
(JPS)
(KJV+) And2532 knew1097 her846 not3756 till2193 she had brought forth5088 her848 firstborn4416 son:5207 and2532 he called2564 his846 name3686 JESUS.2424
(KJVA) And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
(KJVR) And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
(LITV) and did not know her until she bore her son, the First-born. And he called His name Jesus.
(MKJV) and did not know her until she bore her son, the First-born. And he called His name JESUS.
(RV) and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS.
(YLT) and did not know her till she brought forth her son--the first-born, and he called his name Jesus.
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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