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Any YEC's looking to have a discussion?

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Bible-Discussion.com Forum Index -> Creation vs. Evolution Debate

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Jacinth
Ferret

Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 119

Location: The Atlantic Coastal Plain

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: Any YEC's looking to have a discussion?

I am a Geologist by profession, and I have long taken interest in the debate over the age of the Earth. Would any YEC's like to present one argument to begin with for why the Earth is young?

mikeinsarasota
Little Guppy

Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 36

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: Re: Any YEC's looking to have a discussion?

Jacinth wrote:

I am a Geologist by profession, and I have long taken interest in the debate over the age of the Earth. Would any YEC's like to present one argument to begin with for why the Earth is young?

OOh your'e looking in thw wrong place my friend. the se folks here are smart. smarter then your'e college professors are. Just because you teach other people doesn't mean you know evrytning does it????? God created this earth the way it is. Preriod. What now?" Genesis tells us everythign we nee d to know, doesn't it. Yo ujust need to oepen up and listen.

james
Growing Lion

Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 898

Location: Portland, Ore

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:33 am Post subject:

"YEC" ???

ragman13
German Shepherd

Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 325

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:43 am Post subject:

I am undecided on this point but would like to ask some questions to see what your view is on the subject. When reading accounts from YEC many of them explain things like fossil records and mineralization from the flood. Is this a viable explanation for why we even have fossil records?

JimD
Bear Cub

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 628

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject:

If you really want to know about the age of the earth check out some of the books written by Hugh Ross, a scientist that is also a christen, he is devoting a large part of his life to this question. His web site is www.reasons.org Sincerely, Jim

Craig2uguys
Hamster

Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Any YEC's looking to have a discussion?

mikeinsarasota wrote:

Jacinth wrote:

I am a Geologist by profession, and I have long taken interest in the debate over the age of the Earth. Would any YEC's like to present one argument to begin with for why the Earth is young?

God is awesome! I am very thankful that I can walk out to my backyard anytime I want to and pick up a rock that God created millions of years ago and hold it in my hand and ponder the fact that the very God who created that rock millions of years ago is looking at me holding the rock in my hand and thinking, How Great Thou Art!

Craig2uguys
Hamster

Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Any YEC's looking to have a discussion?

mikeinsarasota wrote:

God created this earth the way it is. Preriod. What now?" Genesis tells us everythign we nee d to know, doesn't it. Yo ujust need to oepen up and listen.

Like any other ancient document written by a person or persons of a vastly different time, culture, and language, The Book of Genesis needs to be read in the light of those differences and that is why many thousands of studies have been done on Genesis and its individual parts by scholars representing numerous relevant disciplines. And when read in that light, The Book of Genesis does NOT tell us that the earth is young. The opening words of Genesis, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth,” (NASB, 1995) are, to me, infinitely more majestic and awe-inspiring when seen to be speaking of events that took place billions of years ago rather than a mere several thousand years ago. Just think of it—the Bible speaks of God being in the business of creating BILLIONS OF YEARS AGO! Wow! That is some awesome God!

daviddale3
Kitten

Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 146

Location: georgia

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Any YEC's looking to have a discussion?

Craig2uguys wrote:

mikeinsarasota wrote:

God created this earth the way it is. Preriod. What now?" Genesis tells us everythign we nee d to know, doesn't it. Yo ujust need to oepen up and listen.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. It is only the part about the creation, and flood that you are referring to, correct? To take this position, is to junk the entire Bible as a whole. For instance, the book of Jude states that Enoch was the seventh from Adam, If the Genesis account is not what it appears to be, that of a literal text, then Jude was wrong. Since Jude was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write those words, then the Holy Spirit was wrong. This has disasterous implications for the entire Bible. For how can we be certain of anything that is written? It is no longer trustworthy.

noah
Tadpole

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 25

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:17 pm Post subject:

Jacinth wrote:

Quote:

Would any YEC's like to present one argument to begin with for why the Earth is young?

The primary argument a YEC might make is that the days of creation were literal 24 hours days.

Here is another thought -
Darwinists believe that they have evolved from chimps, monkeys or apes. Their family tree they they present today (as proven fact!) is published in books derived from Darwin's original premise (circa 1837).

Christians on the other hand believe that the Bible is the word of God and that His family tree begins in the garden of Eden. If God is perfect and unchanging in nature and he created man in his own image then man could never have evolved into something else because man is after all created in the image of God.

There are many verses in the Bible that speak of the creation -

http://www.4106bce.info/CreationVerses.pdf

Most YEC believe that the earth is young on the order of about 6000 years since creation -

http://www.4106bce.info

Craig2uguys
Hamster

Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Any YEC's looking to have a discussion?

daviddale3 wrote:

I was referring primarily, but not exclusively, to Genesis 1-11. The Epistle of Jude presents to the scholar a host of unique difficulties, not the least of which is the fact that he quotes, apparently as Scripture, the “Book of “Enoch,” and the academic literature on this epistle is enormous. Since I am not personally acquainted with most of that literature it would not be appropriate for me to comment in any detail about it. I am, however, more familiar with the academic literature on Genesis 1-11. And having earned a bachelor’s degree in biology followed by two years of post-graduate studies in a major university known for academic excellence, I know for an absolute certainty that the story of Noah’s Ark cannot possibly be an accurate account of historic events. And since the story of Noah’s Ark cannot possibly be an accurate account of historic events, there is no reason to believe that the rest of Genesis 1-11 is an accurate account of historic events. Indeed, it is best understood as inspired epic literature.

There are a multitude of different theories regarding the inspiration of the Scriptures that hold that they are inspired writings and I myself believe that they are inspired writings. Precisely which theory, if any of them, is correct I do not know. I do know, however, that when I live my life in accord with the teachings of the New Testament, God blesses my life and is a real and vital part of my life. I also know that when I prayed and asked God to forgive me of my sins and asked Jesus to become my Lord and my Savior, a radical transformation took place in me and I was born again.

The Apostle Paul is like a dear friend and brother to me because I have spent thousands of hours with him in his writings and I know that he wrote with divine authority. Luke was Paul’s best friend, and when many others forsook Paul, Luke remained faithfully at his side. I find in Luke a Christian of the most noble character and a careful scholar who can be trusted. I read and interpret all of the New Testament writers as individuals with their own personal relationship with God, and I understand the importance of getting to know them in order to fairly interpret their writings. We have so very little from Jude that I cannot say that I really know him personally.

Craig2uguys
Hamster

Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject:

noah wrote:

Jacinth wrote:

Quote:

Would any YEC's like to present one argument to begin with for why the Earth is young?

The primary argument a YEC might make is that the days of creation were literal 24 hours days.

If that were their primary argument, they would be in really, really sad shape for neither the Bible nor any other reliable source tells us the length of the days of creation.

daviddale3
Kitten

Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 146

Location: georgia

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject:

Craig2uguys;

Quote:

I am, however, more familiar with the academic literature on Genesis 1-11. And having earned a bachelor’s degree in biology followed by two years of post-graduate studies in a major university known for academic excellence, I know for an absolute certainty that the story of Noah’s Ark cannot possibly be an accurate account of historic events. And since the story of Noah’s Ark cannot possibly be an accurate account of historic events, there is no reason to believe that the rest of Genesis 1-11 is an accurate account of historic events. Indeed, it is best understood as inspired epic literature.

And theres the 'BUT'. I believe in God and the things that the Bible states regarding Jesus, salvation, redemption, how I should live my life, etc..., BUT since fallible man has come to the conclusion, using fallible science as support, that the universe and everything that exists are billions of years old, I must reinterprete the Genesis account to fit that FALLIBLE science that says so.

Do you believe in the resurrection of Jesus? If so, WHY.
There is no scientific evidence to support this claim. In fact all would suggest that it never happened and can never happen. Science has disproved this ridiculous concept. Yet without it our faith is in vain. Why do you insist upon reinterpreting the Genesis account to fit big science's conclusions and not the resurrection? You are not being consistent in your views.

Craig2uguys
Hamster

Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject:

daviddale3 wrote:

Craig2uguys

And theres the 'BUT'. I believe in God and the things that the Bible states regarding Jesus, salvation, redemption, how I should live my life, etc..., BUT since fallible man has come to the conclusion, using fallible science as support, that the universe and everything that exists are billions of years old, I must reinterprete the Genesis account to fit that FALLIBLE science that says so.

Do you believe in the resurrection of Jesus? If so, WHY.
There is no scientific evidence to support this claim. In fact all would suggest that it never happened and can never happen. Science has disproved this ridiculous concept. Yet without it our faith is in vain. Why do you insist upon reinterpreting the Genesis account to fit big science's conclusions and not the resurrection? You are not being consistent in your views.

Yes, all scientists, being human, are fallible. And, of course, all of the writers of the Bible, being human, were fallible.

Yes, I believe in the resurrection of Jesus. I do not believe in it for scientific reasons because there is no scientific evidence for it. I believe in it for historic reasons—reasons that I find quite compelling.

No, there is no scientific evidence that the resurrection of Jesus did not take place. And the New Testament does not portray the resurrection of Jesus as an event that occurred in keeping with the laws of natural science—it portrays the resurrection of Jesus as the most important MIRACLE that ever took place.

The account in Genesis of Noah and the Ark portrays the events as events that occurred in keeping with the laws of natural science (that is, of course, the events other than God speaking). However, such events, without any miracles, are both a biological and a physical impossibility, and all attempts to prove otherwise have given the scientific community the impression that fundamentalist Christians are “a bunch of intellectually challenged baboons suffering from the late stages of dementia.”

Jacinth
Ferret

Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 119

Location: The Atlantic Coastal Plain

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:53 am Post subject:

Ragman wrote:

When reading accounts from YEC many of them explain things like fossil records and mineralization from the flood. Is this a viable explanation for why we even have fossil records?

No, it is not viable. For starters, the fossil record is highly sorted. that is to say, certain species are only found in certain strata. Now a flood would indeed sort fossils, but not in this way. A flood would sort fossils by weight - the heavier fossils would be deposited first and would thus be found in strata below lighter fossils. This is not what we see and thus falsifies the global flood theory.

Jacinth
Ferret

Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 119

Location: The Atlantic Coastal Plain

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:57 am Post subject:

Quote:

The primary argument a YEC might make is that the days of creation were literal 24 hours days.

That's not a scientific argument. Moreover, it is manifestly absurd when one considers the fact that the Sun is needed for a 24 hour day (Genesis tells us that the Sun was not created until the fourth day!).

Quote:

Here is another thought -
Darwinists believe that they have evolved from chimps, monkeys or apes. Their family tree they they present today (as proven fact!) is published in books derived from Darwin's original premise (circa 1837).

Christians on the other hand believe that the Bible is the word of God and that His family tree begins in the garden of Eden. If God is perfect and unchanging in nature and he created man in his own image then man could never have evolved into something else because man is after all created in the image of God.

How is any of this relevant to the age of the Earth?

Quote:

Most YEC believe that the earth is young on the order of about 6000 years since creation -

That is especially interesting in light of the fact that we have archeologic artifiacts twice as old as 6,000 years!

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