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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2658
Location: Salem Oregon
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 Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:39 am Post subject: Bush 41 is already under indictment for war crimes |
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But since the US essentially owns the process of trials for war crimes we will just take it back and pretend that no matter what happens no war crimes took place.
"In War truth is the first casualty" |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8224
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:40 am Post subject: |
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I'm going to nominate Rumsfeld as the worst Defense Secretary in the entire history of the country.
Who else can compete with him?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: |
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and on it goes.....  ... |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2658
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:12 am Post subject: Well P123... does that include the secretaries of "war& |
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What we call now the defense department was called the war department not that many years ago. I recall there was one under Lincoln that left much to be desired. There have only been 21 under the modern title.
Simon Cameron was secretary of war for less than a year during the LIncolon administration and he was fired due to corruption. Cameron was a political hack and re-elected to his senate position aferward. After his son was given the position of secretary of war in 1876 he finally became took the position as senator from the same state of Pennsylvania. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8224
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Well P123... does that include the secretaries of " |
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| dim12trav wrote: | What we call now the defense department was called the war department not that many years ago. I recall there was one under Lincoln that left much to be desired. There have only been 21 under the modern title.
Simon Cameron was secretary of war for less than a year during the LIncolon administration and he was fired due to corruption. Cameron was a political hack and re-elected to his senate position aferward. After his son was given the position of secretary of war in 1876 he finally became took the position as senator from the same state of Pennsylvania. |
This is interesting, but who hurt the country more, Rumsfeld or Cameron?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2658
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: moot point, costs were far less in 1860's |
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During the Lincon Administration the size of our national government grew 100% doubling in size. Our first income taxes were paid, and nearly 1million people were killed [all of them American by the way]. Granted not all of them are attributable to Cameron most [likely to Lincoln himself], this happened why? because we would not let some of our fellow Americans do what they wanted as their states succeeded.
I could not begin to calculate the equivalent cost in 2006 dollars. But just the doubling of our government's size over four years is remarkable. It has since that time redoubled more than 100 times. Making it less and less accountable to the citizens and more vulnerable to business money interests.
Horrible joke for the day: I'm from the government and I'm here to help! |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8224
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: moot point, costs were far less in 1860's |
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| dim12trav wrote: | During the Lincon Administration the size of our national government grew 100% doubling in size. Our first income taxes were paid, and nearly 1million people were killed [all of them American by the way]. Granted not all of them are attributable to Cameron most [likely to Lincoln himself], this happened why? because we would not let some of our fellow Americans do what they wanted as their states succeeded.
I could not begin to calculate the equivalent cost in 2006 dollars. But just the doubling of our government's size over four years is remarkable. It has since that time redoubled more than 100 times. Making it less and less accountable to the citizens and more vulnerable to business money interests.
Horrible joke for the day: I'm from the government and I'm here to help! |
Didn't Bush drastically increase the size of the government during his first four years?
As I understand things, unlike normal Republicans who believe in small government, Bush wants government to be as big as possible.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2658
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: Has anyone here seen... |
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A good quality history of Iraq book or documentary. Even an interview from some new program where they honestly discuss the real history of our involvement (meddling) in the middle East.
There is a new book out that I haven't seen yet called "Faith, Power and Fantasy" by Michael Oren. It sounds like possibly a good book to buy for that information. |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1508
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: moot point, costs were far less in 1860's |
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| dim12trav wrote: | | During the Lincon Administration the size of our national government grew 100% doubling in size. Our first income taxes were paid, and nearly 1million people were killed [all of them American by the way]. Granted not all of them are attributable to Cameron most [likely to Lincoln himself], this happened why? because we would not let some of our fellow Americans do what they wanted as their states succeeded. |
Like own slaves for example..... and it's "Seced" but that's a minor point 
| dim12trav wrote: |
I could not begin to calculate the equivalent cost in 2006 dollars. But just the doubling of our government's size over four years is remarkable. It has since that time redoubled more than 100 times. Making it less and less accountable to the citizens and more vulnerable to business money interests.
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However, on that part...I can't really argue. And it was a major issue in our country's development...would we have a strong federal goverment or strong local governments. Prior to 1865, the balance tipped to the states...afterwards and since, the Federal gov't has grown in power, control and influence...The current discussions (led by Democrats) regarding a national curriculum under "No Child Left Behind Act" (A Bush policy) is one example....
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Based on the title of this thread.. I decided to take a peek.
Since when did it become a 'good idea' to start sending persons employed by the Department of Defense to an international body to be tried for 'war crimes'? Is it me, or does this sound like a really really really bad idea?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Bush 41 is already under indictment for war crimes |
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| dim12trav wrote: | But since the US essentially owns the process of trials for war crimes we will just take it back and pretend that no matter what happens no war crimes took place.
"In War truth is the first casualty" |
You think Rummy needs to be extradited?
Also, Edwin Stanton... Edwin Stanton was appointed Lincoln's Secretary of War in 1862 (History Major - sorry  )... and presided over more American deaths than any other Secretary ever... Is he a criminal too... for sending men to die wholesale?
3000 dead was a morning's skirmish then ( Cold Harbor)... and our countries population was only about 30 million at the time. Folks never apply any historical perspective to these issues. Just demean and demagogue with no solutions... at all. ZERO - ZIPPO - ZILCH.
I'm thinking in investing in the company that manufactures white flags. There seems to be this developing market for them. 
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| don't worry tri...you'll get plenty of war soon enough..... |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| but for the record...if your country is ever to extradite one of its leaders to the u.n. for war crimes...it will be a sad day for the whole world... |
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