Where is heaven?

Zathrus · Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:54 pm Post subject: Where is heaven?

As mentioned in the "Where is God?" thread, I would like to present a few ideas on what I believe the apostles' concept of heaven was.
In Ephesians 1: 20 and 22 Paul states "...and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion and every name that is named, not only in this world, but in that which is to come, and hath put all things under His feet..." Here, I believe Paul tells us exactly where he believed heaven is located. Paul believed heaven is not above the earth in physical altitude, but in spiritual power and authority. It is above principalities, powers and dominions (which I don’t believe refers to demons as some teach, but to that which had authority in the spiritual realm in his day – the law of Moses and the Levitical priesthood). This connection between heaven and dominion/authority can be found throughout the Bible.

Isaiah 66:1 states " The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?" The point God is making here is that He inhabits a place of supreme authority. The earth is a reference to the natural realm, which is under God’s authority.

Psalm 89:27 reads "Also I will make Him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth". A king is high in authority. Jesus was to be higher.

Revelation 12:5 refers to a manchild who "was to rule all nations with a rod of iron, and her child was caught up to God and to His throne." Note also the reference to a "catching up" in this verse. This is an event where the 1st century church was lifted to a place of authority over spiritual death. It is clear to me that a higher place of spiritual power and authority is what Paul described the 1st century church being caught up to in I Thessalonians 4:17.

I think this explains why the “caught up” experience of the individual written about in II Cor. 12 may have been "in the body or out of the body, I cannot tell". I believe this tells us that it is not necessary to leave one's body to be in heaven, nor is it necessary for the body to go to another location. Heaven is a realm of higher spiritual power and authority, not physical location. The passage says he heard words that were "unlawful to utter" during his "caught up" experience. I think he heard the truth of walking in relationship with God apart from the law.

I Cor. 15:24 and 25 speaks of "when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He hath put all enemies under His feet". Note again that having things under one's feet is defined as being above them in power and authority.
The resurrection is again connected to the idea of dominion in Philippians 3:21: "Who shall change our vile body like unto His glorious body according to the working whereby He is able to subdue all things unto Himself".
There are many more passages I could cite, but I don’t have patience to wade through excessively long posts, and don’t expect others to.

While there are certainly passages in which the use of the term “heaven” just means “the sky”, I think when talking about the dwelling place of God, Paul and other writers of scripture understood heaven to be a realm of higher spiritual power and authority, not physical location. The references in the Bible to God dwelling in heaven refer to Him being supreme in power and authority. The new testament references to Jesus sitting at the right hand of God refer to Jesus sharing supreme power and authority with His Father. This is why when Jesus made these statements, and when Stephen declared that he saw Jesus at God’s right hand in heaven, the non-believing 1st century Jews were so outraged. These statements equate Jesus with God in the sense that He is Lord of all.

Van · Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:09 pm Post subject: Where is heaven?

I did not see anything I disagree with. As I have posted before, I think the first heaven is the atmosphere where birds fly, the second heaven is space where the stars are stretched out like a curtain, and the third heaven is outside our physical universe, in the spiritual realm. I think Tiger pointed out that the same word translated third heaven is also translated Paradise.

In heaven God's will is done (Matthew 6:10) and our prayer is to do His will on earth.

philer · Little Goldfish Joined: 13 Feb 2003 Posts: 54

van ,i agree,in that if there is 3 heavens as paul stated in view of what we know and you have said it makes sense. I read the book of enoch and if people were to think it an accurate account they might be inclined there were more than 3. So far the bible indicates only the 3 and i have to believe as van does.

admin · Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 11:47 am Post subject:

Heaven is about 4 kilometers east of Barstow.
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