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admin
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 Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
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Are There Cavemen in Heaven?
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
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| admin wrote: | | Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
Define Caveman please....
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Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
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Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | admin wrote: | | Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
Define Caveman please.... |
The humans who lived around the same time as wooly mammoths.
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | admin wrote: | | Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
Define Caveman please.... |
The humans who lived around the same time as wooly mammoths. |
They are humans? Is that the bottom line?
If so... I see no problem with affirming that proposition.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8218
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
They are humans? Is that the bottom line?
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Yes.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
If so... I see no problem with affirming that proposition. |
Sorry, I don't get it... Are there any cavemen in heaven or not?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: |
They are humans? Is that the bottom line?
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Yes.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
If so... I see no problem with affirming that proposition. |
Sorry, I don't get it... Are there any cavemen in heaven or not? |
If you are stating that cavemen are fully human... yes. But... I have a sneaky suspicion we are going to go through a looooong list of 'disqualifiers' here which will include: 
1. When EXACTLY did these 'cavemen' live?
2. How does this timeline corelate to the Biblical timeline.
3. How archeology has proven that they did/did not live 50,000 years ago.
Etc...
Right? Wrong?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8218
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: |
They are humans? Is that the bottom line?
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Yes.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
If so... I see no problem with affirming that proposition. |
Sorry, I don't get it... Are there any cavemen in heaven or not? |
If you are stating that cavemen are fully human... yes. But... I have a sneaky suspicion we are going to go through a looooong list of 'disqualifiers' here which will include:
1. When EXACTLY did these 'cavemen' live?
2. How does this timeline corelate to the Biblical timeline.
3. How archeology has proven that they did/did not live 50,000 years ago.
Etc...
Right? Wrong? |
No, I think we can skip all of that. Regardless of when exactly they lived, I think we can all agree that they predated Christianity as well as Judaism. Since they weren't Jews or Christians, is there any chance that there are any cavemen in heaven?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | No, I think we can skip all of that. |
Thank goodness!
| Quote: | | Regardless of when exactly they lived, I think we can all agree that they predated Christianity as well as Judaism. Since they weren't Jews or Christians, is there any chance that there are any cavemen in heaven? |
Sure... Jews didn't really become a 'people' until Abraham... round 'bouts 2000 BC. Prior to that that man operated under the Adamatic Covenant and the Noahdic Covenant. So, if a fella from down in the valley, 'kick'en it' in da cave, hooked up with... say Shem... listened to and adhered to the Covenant... yea... sure.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8218
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
Sure... Jews didn't really become a 'people' until Abraham... round 'bouts 2000 BC. Prior to that that man operated under the Adamatic Covenant and the Noahdic Covenant. So, if a fella from down in the valley, 'kick'en it' in da cave, hooked up with... say Shem... listened to and adhered to the Covenant... yea... sure. |
Ok, just so I understand, God comes down from time to time and gives a new covenant explaining how we're supposed to live. Is this correct?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Ok, just so I understand, God comes down from time to time and gives a new covenant explaining how we're supposed to live. Is this correct? |
Yes and no. God establishes covenants with man... who ends up breaking them. What covanant has man made with God that has been kept? Man has forced God to do this... on occasion.
This is exactly why Christ (God) finally made an unbreakable convenant with mankind Himself. He paid for the price of our sins... because we can't. This is why Christ is so important to Christians. The details often over shadow the necessity... but that really is the bottom line. We have, in the past, been provided methods (covenants) for communion with God but we kept breaking them... so God gotter-done Himself.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: MO
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Are There Cavemen in Heaven? |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | Ok, just so I understand, God comes down from time to time and gives a new covenant explaining how we're supposed to live. Is this correct? |
Yes and no. God establishes covenants with man... who ends up breaking them. What covanant has man made with God that has been kept? Man has forced God to do this... on occasion.
This is exactly why Christ (God) finally made an unbreakable convenant with mankind Himself. He paid for the price of our sins... because we can't. This is why Christ is so important to Christians. The details often over shadow the necessity... but that really is the bottom line. We have, in the past, been provided methods (covenants) for communion with God but we kept breaking them... so God gotter-done Himself. |
amen
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | He paid for the price of our sins... because we can't. |
What price? He lived for 30 years, suffered for a bit, and died. He didn't even stay dead, he got rewarded after his death. What kind of price is that? He didn't even qualify as a sin sacrifice. Leviticus (if I recall correctly) is quite clear on what animals can be offered, and humans are not among them.
Besides, doesn't this fly in the face of the whole "God is unchanging" mantra? |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: |
Besides, doesn't this fly in the face of the whole "God is unchanging" mantra? |
You ask this question as if you want to know the answer. You don't want to know the answer, you want to continue an argument. <make him beg, Trin>
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You may not believe in God, but He believes in you. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps a little Theo101 might be in order here.
Applying the Socratic method of 'learning', let me ax you a few questions:
1. What is the price of sin? Meaning, what is, has been, and always will be the punishment?
2. How was sin reconciled before God prior to Christ and why?
| Quote: | | He lived for 30 years, |
I thought it was 33... but I am quibbling. 
| Quote: | | suffered for a bit, |
Define suffering... and 'a bit'. While doing this, please ensure you can cite the antithesis of 'suffering' and "bit' when doing a comparison. At the same time... for the sake of argument, assume Christ was who He said He was. It might just jump right out and hit you... maybe.
See question #1.
| Quote: | | He didn't even stay dead, he got rewarded after his death. |
And who exactly 'rewarded' him? And what was the reward again?
| Quote: | | What kind of price is that? |
Participating in this exercise might answer your question... or at least clarify it for.
| Quote: | | He didn't even qualify as a sin sacrifice. Leviticus (if I recall correctly) is quite clear on what animals can be offered, and humans are not among them. |
Oh, I see... and Isaac (son of Abraham) was... what? The family pet? I think you are missing this 'covenant' thing altogether.
| Quote: | | Besides, doesn't this fly in the face of the whole "God is unchanging" mantra? |
Well, that is what the song says... um... the Bible too. So, it must be right.
How is God changing? He makes a covenant. Man breaks it. He makes a new one. Man breaks that one too. And so on. How does that change God?
Kinda like saying that since I now drive a Chevy... I have somehow changed as I use to drive a Ford. (BTW... I won't drive a Ford... this is only used as an illustration) God hasn't changed a bit... man has rebelled.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1803
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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FYI, Yes, the original question posted here was more about status of people that lived before Judaism and Christianity. It was not a trick question or to be about the age of the earth, etc. And I think it was prudent to skip those questions for this thread.
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Cybermonsters (Most Beloved Admin)
Favorite Octopus Video! - My Site - Studio
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