not a hypothetical

lone-traveler · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:42 am Post subject: not a hypothetical

looking for some advice, maybe legal counsel if it's out there.

Back in January Mark and I wanted to purchase a trailer through the company we work for...they said cash.
We couldn't, but an affiliated company who works in the same office...
believe it or not, father and son, son says, I'll buy it from you and lease it to Mark. In March Son says I own the trailer, so we signed a contract to pay the trailer in installments. No prepayment penalties. In March.

Two days ago, we went up and purchased the trailer..PIF.
Then we find out we can't register it because son put a lien on it in July.

So now the title is in the son's name with a bank lien on it and we can't recieve title till he pays off the bank.

In the meantime..the trailer we purchased and pulling around behind us is illegal till we get home and drop it.

One of the clauses in the contract was that in order for the contract not to be breached we had to stay working with the company until we paid it off in full. The day we paid it off we quit.
Now we can't get hired on by anyone else until the title is in our name.

Talking awhile here...

Did son breach the contract by putting a lien against it after it was under contract to us?

And what would you do, if this were you...

Mark says take em to the cleaners....I feel that way too,

But I got a soft heart which sometimes get me into more trouble than good.

Thanks for any replies.

(this is the reason for my cynicism last couple days...fits perfectly with the discussions we having..

God Bless
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Ana · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:07 am Post subject:

Sorry about sticking my nose in the ChrFellowship forum, but I'm glad I did, in a way...

Not legal counsel, but here's what I think:

You have a papertrail that says you agreed to pay for the trailer; does that contract say you own the trailer - I know he said it to you, but is that part in writing? If it is, then he broke that contract somehow when he was able to put that lien on, I think... unless ownership passes from him to you when you make that final payment, in which case, he is responsible for giving you a clean title at that time. If he didn't uphold that, then yes, I'd say take him to court.

Ugly situation Sad

Well, FWIW, good luck to you both! I hope you are able to sort this out.

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Hi lone,

lone-traveler · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject:

Hi Anna,
Thankyou.

Yes it does say we paid for the trailer in full, amount, check number, and date. And while we were in the office, we had it notorized.

The whole thing is, this company has been giving us a hard time for awhile. And we've just been kind of turning the cheek here.
But Mark, well, He's no christian in name, but his spirit is good, yet lately he's just had it up to here.

We just purchased a house, and took out a loan to pay off the trailer.
Now we have house payments, truck payments, and a loan payment, and we can't go to work..LOL..

oh bother, what a week it's been..

So his first response is , I'm gonna get that %^&*&%$#...

you know?
And I'm sitting on the other side, saying keep cool everything will work out. lalala...

And he says, you know, If we did that, then we would be in jail...
that's usually our kind of luck LOL...we just not the lucky type..
I say, I know....But two wrongs don't make a right...

He says, is it wrong to punish someone when they do wrong. I'm not wanting to take them to court for nothing, there's a very good reason here for justice to be served...

I say your right...but I don't want a million dollars. I just want what we paid for. Me too he says....plus time this is causing us to be out of work.

So either we get the full amount back in cash plus whatever down time we have, or we sue them for everything they got, because they broke the law...

I don't know if you been following the posts lately down in debate...it's all about the law. And here I am sitting smack dab in the middle of a here and now situation, which is perfectly aligning with the debates below.

So ...I tell mark, call him and tell him you want the title today or the cash.
He says he's calling a lawyer first...doesn't want to let him off the hook that easy... Rolling Eyes

So here it is friday, lawyers working half a day...lol...I get to sit back and enjoy..(fret) all weekend...
not me, him lol...I know everything is going to work out, I just don't know which way, or if there even is a legal case to begin with.

I was thinking about realeastate...
A house goes up for sale, I put a deposit on it, it goes under contract. Now the owner of that house, can they take a second mortgage?? out on it, while in the process of selling it, and it being under contract?

I think the same principle applies wouldn't it?

Thanks Anna...
we just keep getting tossed and turned, but I know good things come to those who wait...and Mark.. Rolling Eyes

.I hope things work out soon...LOLOL

Thankyou
Lone

ps..the day we quit, the company started calling other companies telling them not to hire us...and their the ones who have a bad reputation with the law....oh bother...that's why we quit, didn't want to get caught up in their webs and weaves, looks like the thread got us by the toe....
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Ana · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject:

That's pretty crazy that they are blackballing you!

Well, it's one thing to turn your cheek, but you're in a very tight spot - can't use the trailer, can't sell the trailer... Taking some sort of legal action isn't about attacking this guy - it isn't even like revenge - it sounds like you just want to go on doing what you've been doing.

I hope things work out for you guys quickly!
Try not to fret too much this weekend,
Ana
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth.
Ana's Bananas

lone-traveler · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:39 pm Post subject:

Thankyou Ana.
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

lone-traveler · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject:

nana...

I know, I know....to turn the other cheek is the thing to do. But then that means they go unpunished and evil has authority over us.

Now God says..promises that vengeance is His. And I'm praying that He opens a door for us to go the right way, and not have to take measures into our own hands...

But we are also told that we need to judge righteously. And this is what I am weighing with all my heart.

I would really like to give this guy all the time in the world to pay off his debt so we can recieve what we already paid for. And while we're waiting I'm taking the chance of not only losing my coat and cloak, but the house, property, truck, good credit, and our name...
utilities, loans, should I go into bankruptcy because he broke his word?

These guys are bigger than we are, they know the loop holes to get around things...we're just the little guy, gullible and thinking everyone is honest.

Should they get away unscathed? while we perish?

Is this justice and good judgement.

What would God do....

Tell them it's ok to bury me, just go and sin no more?

And if their doing it to us, how many other workers are they taking advantage of? Shouldn't somebody stand up for what is right?

Oh nana, your hearts like my heart too....
I never want to hurt anybody period, but there comes a time when the Lord says, go and fight and I will be with you.

I'm just waiting for the battle call, and hearing Him say, stand still and watch...

This is my hope nana, that justice will be served, and not My will, but thy will Lord be done...Amen?

I'm in a strait betwixt two...lol...

these guys are like the saducees and pharisees, Jesus didn't let them get away with murder, did he? no...he who is without sin throw the first stone.

Hey nana.....I'm not a sinner, I've been set free....so does that mean I should set the record straight....oh bother...what a day..

God Bless
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Hi lone,

I owned my own business for 17 years and dealt with many situations and one thing that I learned above all is: When your ways please the Lord He will make even your enemies to be at peace with you.

I alway tried to take the humble side and in some cases took the blame to keep peace.

I don't know what you paid for the trailer or how much the lean is, but this one thing I know for sure, a lawyer is expensive and you do not alway come out on top in the end.

Why don't you compromise your loss and talk to the man giving him the benefit of the doubt and see if (your feeling sorry for him and his situation) he will negotiate so that if this trailer costs you a little bit more it still does not cost the price of a lawyer and it will still be well worth the cost and a quick solution in the end. Don't worry that you have been defrauded, you just want your trailer.

Remember, every man seems right in his own eyes no matter how preposterious he really is.

In Christ, Judy

Ana · Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject:

I think nana has a good point. Maybe negotiating with this guy will be easier. It sounds like he doesn't want to listen, but maybe you can find out why he's done what he's done to you (I wonder if he knows what kind of situation he put ou in - I think probably, but maybe he hasn't thought it through - why do these guys have it in for you?!). Also, lawyers have the unfortunate reputation of not really being in it for you... At any rate, I hope things work out for you guys.

Regards,
Ana

lone-traveler · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:10 am Post subject:

Hi Ana,

Independence I think. Most of the people they hire are company drivers. We're independent contracters. Owner operators. We've been with them for about 5 years. Everything was going fine, until, we decided to purchase the trailer. well, not everything..
There are certain rules that company drivers have to follow, and certain ones O/O have to follow. They kept putting us in the company driver column.
For instance there is a fuel charge that belongs to the O/O it's a credit that goes to the O/O to allow for fuel purchased while under a load.
We found at that they were withholding the fuel charge for themselves.
anywhere between 200 to $500...more or less depending upon the run.
So we questioned it...they got grumpy. Then all of a sudden the safety department started writing us up for falsification of logs and over the speed limit warnings...

Their company trucks are governed at 62 mph throughout the 48 states.
Our own truck is governed at 72.
When we go through say Arizona or Texas the speed limit is 70. And we go about 65. This puts us in the overspeed limit according to their company trucks. But the O/O under the contract signed with the company is under no obligation to abide by company truck rules.

So we get written up, then we question why....which gets them upset and then they start charging us with falsification of log books...

There is some paperwork required by the driver, either company or O/O that must be turned in to the company..
Log pages for the week you ran,
the reciept for the job you just delivered,
fuel reciepts, and if there are any toll reciepts that are used for verification of your driving status.

Ok, so we turn those in, actually they recieve the fuel reciept anyways because we purchase fuel off their fuel card and then they take it out of our settlement.

Then they send us a paper saying they want cell phone reciepts, credit card reciepts, a whole list of things.
Well, if we were company drivers using the company cell phones or had a company credit card I would say fine, but these are person credit card statements, person cell phone bills..etc..And we told them that because they were personal and not company issued that according to the contract they were not entitled to those.

This got them upset. We had a company phone that they were able to trace their trucks with, and a while back we gave them back their phone and purchased our own...they didn't like that.

The office is slow too. We would call and tell them we need a load, dispatch always said..we don't have nothing yet. Sometimes we would sit for days waiting for them to find something. Finally we decided to start looking for our own loads. We would find them and then tell the company, here is one how about that..."that doesn't pay enough"...so we sit some more.
Needless to say it's been more sitting than driving since we started to purchase the trailer.
We would make a check call in the morning, the receptionist would get the call, tell us the dispatcher was busy on the other line. We say, tell them we are making our check call..OK...a couple hours later..
Why didn't you call???

You might understand this if they were in seperate parts of the building but they sit directly across from one another face to face...lol..

We don't get a copy of how much the load paid, they tell us how much, we get a percentage, and move along...
A couple times we haven't been paid for loads and had to remind them to pay us...oh we forgot...or the computers crashed...usually on payroll day, lol...

So now we decide that's it, we're going to buy the trailer and go somewhere and get back on our feet.....

That's when we found out that the one who sold us the trailer had put a lien against it, after we had gone under contract for it.
which in the contract itself says, if we do that then we would be breaching the contract and all monies owed would have to be paid in full immediately.
So we pay expecting to recieve the title free and clear and they can't give it to us without paying off their own loan first.

It's been a long ride. And a lot of twists and turns along the way. We have let a lot of things slide over the last five years, turned the cheek until the checkbook and attitude is red raw...
and then...this...

The whole bottom line is, they couldn't track us, they couldn't get personal information, and they wanted to treat us as company drivers instead of O/O and pay us what they wanted and not what was actually due us. We finally said no...now their mad..

As far as the credit card reciepts go..we do everything out of our bank. In order to give them a reciept for our credit card we would have to give them a copy of our bank statement each month...I put my foot down. no way.

One more thing they asked and I don't know if this is legal. They asked us, because they needed our name and address, could we make up a business card with our name on it showing that we were owner operators..
"just make up a company name and send us a card with your name on it".

I looked at Mark...that's fraud, we don't have a company name. We're leased to them..
He listened I was amazed..LOL

They've been looking for ways to fire us since March so they could keep the money we already had invested in the trailer and get the trailer back.

The cost of it was 13,000. We put in 2,000 worth of repairs and tires and parts, and they used that as down payment. 4,000 we've paid since March, and the balance of 7,000 the other day.
They have recieved the full amount, and still we can't use the trailer for who knows how long.
So we have to store it somewhere till we can. We're situated in a place where we can't put the trailer on our property. Can't drive it in. So now we have to pay storage on top of eveything else.

yup the long ride is getting longer still...and more bumpy every day.

I know we have a case, and I know we will win. I just wish it didn't have to be like this...

why can't people just play fair and according to the rules??

there aught to be a law... Rolling Eyes

The bible says, why do you go to law with the unbelievers and not bring it to the church...so I figured I'd put it on the table and see what you guys thought...

nana, we don't have anymore cheek to turn. They smacked them around too much already. There's nothing left. So we need to get our cheeks back, so we can smile again... Wink

Thankyou for your responses guys. This is a tough one, but not a losing one, that's for sure.

God Bless
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

lone,
i have visted a trucking discussion board web site a time or two...don't know why, i don''t drive a truck...but i have anyway...and i have read horror stories by and about folks that caught up in certain company's and the trouble and misery it caused them...and some company's in particular...

sounds like son has a drug problem so you may never get more than a judgement. but he may be in some trouble.

lone-traveler · Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:05 am Post subject:

Well,
We got hired by another company close to home even!. The trailer we managed to fit it in behind the house, (had to take a street sign down to get it in there), but at least it's out of the way and we know it's safe.
We will find out on tuesday whether we recieve the title and can move on, or if we don't get it, then have to take the next step.

So, thank God for the job!!.

we're moving again..losing 10 cents a mile because we're using their trailer not ours. But moving is better than sitting still. In this case anyways..lol..
Just a matter of time.

Thanks All
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

knuckle · Young Wolf Joined: 18 Sep 2006 Posts: 501

Hi Lone------------

I am praying this situation is resolved in your favor.My brother is an over the road driver and he has worked for some of those crooked freight lines before.He is currently working for a great outfit now as a trainer and they are always looking for good teams.

much love to you and your hubby-----------knuckle

lone-traveler · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:04 am Post subject:

Thank you all,

well, it's thursday and no title...oh bother..

We were able to stop by the house for a couple hours...I was hoping a day at least..oh well.

Guess we're going to have to take a visit up north and straighten this out.
Heading to TN, I'll be wavin as I go by... Very Happy

Good Morning
and
God Bless
Lone

on the road again.....I just can't wait to get on the road again....

(what was he thinkin??) Confused or disgusted

(there's no place like home..there's no place like home.) Wink

_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.