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Da Blonde Bombshell Cobra

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 461 Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:29 am Post subject: Mainline Denominations Struggle w/ LGBT Issue: Focus-UMC |
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Due to conflicting views, like our governments, our church bodies often send mixed messages on the issues of the day. The topic of this forum is no exception.
Recently the United Methodist Church's Judicial Council made two controversial decisions: (1) Defrocking Rev. Beth Stroud for being a lesbian, and (2) Confirming a local pastor's authority to deny church membership to a gay man. The former was, unfortunately, in accordance with the UMC Book of Discipline...what changes are needed are legislative in nature, not judicial. The latter is more problematic, and resulted in a somewhat unprecedented pastoral letter from UMC Bishops affirming membership is open to all. Below is the UMC News story on that:
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United Methodist bishops affirm church membership open to all
Nov. 3, 2005
By Tim Tanton*
LAKE JUNALUSKA, N.C. (UMNS) — Homosexuality is not a barrier to membership in the United Methodist Church, the denomination’s bishops said Nov. 2, two days after the church’s top court supported a pastor’s refusal to allow a gay man to join.
“While pastors have the responsibility to discern readiness for membership, homosexuality is not a barrier,” the bishops said in their pastoral letter to the people of the United Methodist Church.
In a ruling announced Oct. 31, the Judicial Council supported the Rev. Ed Johnson of South Hill (Va.) United Methodist Church in his decision not to allow a gay man to join his congregation. The man was a choir member and had been meeting with Johnson about transferring membership from another denomination.
Johnson was placed on a yearlong involuntary leave of absence by fellow pastors during the clergy session of the Virginia Annual (regional) Conference last June. The Judicial Council upheld Johnson’s action, citing the authority given to clergy by the church’s Book of Discipline. The court ordered that the pastor be reinstated to his previous status.
The ripple effect of the court’s decision was felt immediately in Lake Junaluska, where the Council of Bishops is holding its weeklong fall meeting. The council spent at least four hours in closed session working on a statement responding to the ruling.
“With the Social Principles of the United Methodist Church, we affirm ‘that God’s grace is available to all, and we will seek to live together in Christian community,’” the bishops said, quoting from the Social Principles in the Book of Discipline. “‘We implore families and churches not to reject or condemn lesbian and gay members and friends. We commit ourselves to be in ministry for and with all persons.’
“We also affirm our Wesleyan practice that pastors are accountable to the bishop, superintendent and the clergy on matters of ministry and membership,” the bishops said.
The Council of Bishops unanimously adopted the pastoral letter in closed session.
The announcement of the court’s ruling caused “considerable conversation within the council,” said Bishop Janice Riggle Huie, who led the seven-bishop writing team that worked on the statement. Huie oversees the church’s Texas Annual (regional) Conference.
Many of the bishops had received calls and e-mail from pastors and lay people in their conferences who were “greatly troubled” by the ruling and were asking for clarification, she told United Methodist News Service.
“We wanted our response to be thoughtful, prayerful and to speak to the church,” she said.
As the bishops worked on the statement, it became clear that there was unity within the council regarding the membership of gays in the United Methodist Church, she said. “I don’t think it’s going too far to say the council is of one mind that gay and lesbian people can be members of the United Methodist Church.”
The Book of Discipline affirms homosexuals as people “of sacred worth.” It also holds the practice of homosexuality incompatible with Christian teaching, and it bars the performance of same-sex unions by the church’s clergy and in the church’s sanctuaries.
During oral hearings before the Judicial Council Oct. 27, the Rev. Tom Thomas of Virginia, speaking for Johnson, argued that the pastor “drew the line not at the homosexual person but at homosexual practice.” Johnson, who was at the hearing, did not address the court.
Virginia Bishop Charlene Kammerer defended the suspension of Johnson, stating that the Constitution emphasizes inclusiveness and not exclusiveness, and that only allowing participation in the church “amounts to second-class citizenship.”
In their pastoral letter, the bishops said they “uphold and affirm” that the church’s top legislative body, the General Conference, “has clearly spoken through the denomination’s Constitution on inclusiveness and justice for all as it relates to church membership.”
The bishops cited the Constitution’s declaration that all people shall be eligible to attend the church’s worship services, participate in its programs, receive the sacraments, be admitted as baptized members, “and upon taking the vows declaring the Christian faith, become professing members in any local church in the connection.”
“The invitation that this (Judicial Council) ruling gives to all of us is to think carefully about the meaning of United Methodist membership,” said Bishop Peter Weaver, president of the council and leader of the church’s New England Conference.
The ruling provides an opportunity “to think about how we are inclusive of persons who are in our communities and how we make disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world,” he said. Making disciples is a theme of the bishops’ fall meeting and their focus for 2005-08. Weaver noted that earlier on Nov. 2, the council had heard a major presentation on evangelism by a Duke Divinity School theologian.
Regarding a pastor’s authority to make decisions about membership, Weaver said: “The local pastor does have authority, but it’s in the context of the theology and values of the United Methodist Church.”
The bishops will discuss other possible responses to the ruling as their meeting continues, he said. The meeting, which began Oct. 30, ends Nov. 4.
Weaver is already responding in his own New England Conference by setting up four regional opportunities for Christian conversation about the Judicial Council ruling.
The Council of Bishops comprises the top clergy leaders in the nearly 11 million-member United Methodist Church. The council has 69 active bishops and about 100 retired bishops from the United States, Africa, Europe and the Philippines.
***
As we know, institutions are slow to change. As a footnote Stroud continues at her church as a lay minister with no reduction in pay or benefits, just cannot celebrate communion or other duties reserved for pastors. Of course, the UMC, like other denominations, is being subjected to political maneuvering by right-wing forces among church members, more laity than clergy. While the Episcopal Church and the United Church of Christ have by and larged moved forward on these issues, our inertia and the machinations of extremists prevent traction here.
When some suggest such things might rationally lead one to consider leaving the UMC, I am reminded of Jerry Rubin's poingant epiphany upon meeting Che Guevera upon his visit to Cuba in 1967. Rubin remarked he and other student movement leaders despaired on the prospect of "returning to the political b.s. in the United States" but Che said to them, "You North Americans are lucky. You live in the belly of the beast." _________________ "Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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Da Blonde Bombshell Cobra

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 461 Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:17 am Post subject: |
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This was on 365gay.com today:
Opposition Continues Over Lesbian Pastor's Defrocking
by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff
Posted: December 8, 2005 9:00 pm ET
(Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) Two rulings concerning gays by the highest court in the United Methodist Church are continuing to divide the denomination.
The denomination's Judicial Council in October overturned a lower church court ruling and ordered the defrocking of a lesbian pastor who is in a committed relationship with another woman. (story)
The United Methodist Church accepts gay and lesbian ministers as long as they are celibate.
The Rev. Beth Stroud notified her Germantown, Pennsylvania congregation of the relationship in a sermon on April 27, 2003. Her bishop immediately began procedures to remove Stroud from the ministry.
In a second LGBT case, the Judicial Council ordered the reinstatement of a rural Virginia minister placed on leave for denying a gay man membership in his church last winter.
The Council decided the Rev. Edward Johnson was within his ministerial rights when he denied membership to the would-be parishioner.
While the rulings pleased conservatives in the denomination liberals and moderates were angered.
In Denver, more than 124 members of the clergy from the Rocky Mountain region of the UMC have signed a statement protesting the rulings, particularly the one that barring a gay man from membership.
"We proclaim our vigorous disagreement with this act of injustice by the highest judicial body of our denomination," said the statement.
Among the signers were Bishop Warner H. Brown Jr., who heads the region, and the Rev. Phil Wogaman, acting president of Iliff School of Theology.
Wogaman is a former president of the American Theological Society and was President Clinton's pastor.
"Even in the Bible Belt, the reaction is generally negative," said Wogaman. "I have heard of only a handful of people who are supporting the judicial council decision. Even those who consider homosexuality a sin feel this has gone too far."
Wogaman and Brown believe that the outrage is so widespread it will force the Judicial Council to revisit its decisions when it meets again in April.
Although the Judicial Council has the final word on church law, the denomination's Council of Bishops issued a unanimous declaration that homosexuality is not a barrier to church membership and that the church's rules "implore families and churches not to reject or condemn lesbian and gay members and friends."
Last month the pastor of Minneapolis' Hennepin Avenue United Methodist Church, the largest Methodist church in Minnesota, issued an apology from the pulpit for the denomination's treatment of gays and lesbians.
"We cannot continue when people are excluded from exercising their gifts in the house of God and excluded from membership in church," the Rev. Robbins told the congregation.
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Bolding is mine. According to the story there is reason to be optimistic that it is possible these actions may be reversed. _________________ "Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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thunder Lion King

Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1222
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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If the obviously gay man is seeking repentance and a changed life to overcome homosexual tendencies and desires the help of the church and pastor to achieve his goal then, he would be allowed admission.
However, if the admitted gay man is seeking refuge in a church to continue practicing a gay life, as though the church agreed to let him in and to practice homosexuality, then, he is not repentant and has NO BUSINESS entering the church.
" The Lord is not slack concerning his promise as some men count lackness but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9
When a sinner is NOT interested in repentance, they should seek Christ to bring that conviction to light to them.
thunder _________________ Submit to God in Christ |
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Da Blonde Bombshell Cobra

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 461 Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| thunder wrote: | If the obviously gay man is seeking repentance and a changed life to overcome homosexual tendencies and desires the help of the church and pastor to achieve his goal then, he would be allowed admission.
However, if the admitted gay man is seeking refuge in a church to continue practicing a gay life, as though the church agreed to let him in and to practice homosexuality, then, he is not repentant and has NO BUSINESS entering the church.
" The Lord is not slack concerning his promise as some men count lackness but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9
When a sinner is NOT interested in repentance, they should seek Christ to bring that conviction to light to them.
thunder |
Which church? Not the United Methodist.
There's no sin in being homosexual.
Moreover, how does one "practice" homosexuality? It's not like a medical practice. It's just another's capacity to love that is different from yours but of exact equal value. _________________ "Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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