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admin
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 Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:41 am Post subject: Reconciling Evolution as a Christian |
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I thought this thread might be a better diversion from the current rock throwing.
I know that many ministers have accepted evolution, and it is not a problem to them. They are continuuing in their ministries unfettered. I do not know the details of the apologetics in this area, or if any changes in scripture interpretation are in order.
Was hoping someone might shed light in this area. This would seem a better use of time rather than either/or statements that seem to infer you can't be Christian and accept evolution.
I would like this thread to stay focused on the area of beliefs that accept Christianity and evolution side-by-side. Please leave debates as to who's right about evolution/creation to other threads.
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Carico
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:39 am Post subject: Re: Reconciling Evolution as a Christian |
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| admin wrote: | I thought this thread might be a better diversion from the current rock throwing.
I know that many ministers have accepted evolution, and it is not a problem to them. They are continuuing in their ministries unfettered. I do not know the details of the apologetics in this area, or if any changes in scripture interpretation are in order.
Was hoping someone might shed light in this area. This would seem a better use of time rather than either/or statements that seem to infer you can't be Christian and accept evolution.
I would like this thread to stay focused on the area of beliefs that accept Christianity and evolution side-by-side. Please leave debates as to who's right about evolution/creation to other threads. |
Jesus said that there will be many who call him Lord and even perform miracles in his name who will not enter the kingdom of heaven. He also said we have one teacher and that is the Christ. So it is completely irrelevant what any ministers say. All that matters is what's true and what's false. So any human being who thinks he knows better how man was created than God does is arrogant and deceptive because none of us knows better than God does. Those ministers contradict Jesus when they say we came from apes instead of the biblical account of Genesis, because Jesus himself is the Word, which John 1:1-3 tells us. Jesus also said; "He who is not with me is against me." One cannot say that Jesus is the truth and say he is a liar at the same time. It's one or the other. 
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trettep
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Reconciling Evolution as a Christian |
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| admin wrote: | I thought this thread might be a better diversion from the current rock throwing.
I know that many ministers have accepted evolution, and it is not a problem to them. They are continuuing in their ministries unfettered. I do not know the details of the apologetics in this area, or if any changes in scripture interpretation are in order.
Was hoping someone might shed light in this area. This would seem a better use of time rather than either/or statements that seem to infer you can't be Christian and accept evolution.
I would like this thread to stay focused on the area of beliefs that accept Christianity and evolution side-by-side. Please leave debates as to who's right about evolution/creation to other threads. |
The only way I can see a minister accepting evolution is to throw out Creation obviously because evolution is contrary to the creation account. For example:
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
The woman was made from the Rib of Adam and therefore that appears to be contrary to evolution.
Additionally:
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Therefore, this seems to show that every creature was brought forth after its kind.
Paul |
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RevJP
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:34 am Post subject: |
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So if I were to clone a person, how would I do it? I would take DNA from that person and grow it, yes? Since I am able to do that and I wanted to make a companion for the said person, I would alter the genetics to cause it to be a female.
So, what did GOd do when He created Eve?
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admin
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Reconciling Evolution as a Christian |
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| Carico wrote: | | Those ministers contradict Jesus when they say we came from apes.... |
Just for the record - Evolution does not say we came from apes. Ironically, this statement is only said by creationists when trying to refute evolution. But evolution does not say this.
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trettep
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Reconciling Evolution as a Christian |
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| admin wrote: | | Carico wrote: | | Those ministers contradict Jesus when they say we came from apes.... |
Just for the record - Evolution does not say we came from apes. Ironically, this statement is only said by creationists when trying to refute evolution. But evolution does not say this. |
What is the core statement of evolution?
Paul |
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FFT
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Reconciling Evolution as a Christian |
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| trettep wrote: | | What is the core statement of evolution? |
"Populations evolve."
| admin wrote: | | Just for the record - Evolution does not say we came from apes. Ironically, this statement is only said by creationists when trying to refute evolution. But evolution does not say this. |
It doesn't, but we and other apes definitely descended from an apelike ancestor.
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RevJP
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It doesn't, but we and other apes definitely descended from an apelike ancestor. |
This then becomes the sticking point doesn't it?
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FFT
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | This then becomes the sticking point doesn't it? |
Explain.
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When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
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SDMD
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Reconciling Evolution as a Christian |
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| admin wrote: | Was hoping someone might shed light in this area. This would seem a better use of time rather than either/or statements that seem to infer you can't be Christian and accept evolution.
I would like this thread to stay focused on the area of beliefs that accept Christianity and evolution side-by-side. Please leave debates as to who's right about evolution/creation to other threads. |
I am a Christian and I have no problem at all accepting Evolution. Likely because I know what it actually is, as compared to most of the people who post against it, and who shows an astonishing ignorance of even the most basic components of Evolution, not to mention the same astonishing ignorance even of basic concepts of science in general.
I don't see Genesis 1 as a literal science text book. I don't see the Bible at all as a textbook in what happened or how it happened. I see the Bible as a very important text, THE most important text as to WHY things have happened.
I have no conflict whatsoever between my Faith and science. And I don't have to bear False Witness about anything to do so, unlike when I see the creationists bera false witness time after time in order to justify their groundless attacks on evolution.
I see creationism as weak faith, as faith that can not be sustained without physical evidence of God. I see creationism as pushing the modern version of the Israelites Golden Calf.
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Geology: fossils of different ages
Paleontology: fossil sequence & species change over time.
Taxonomy: biological relationships
Evolution: explanation that ties it all together.
Creationism: squeezing eyes shut, wailing "DOES NOT!" |
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trettep
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | So if I were to clone a person, how would I do it? I would take DNA from that person and grow it, yes? Since I am able to do that and I wanted to make a companion for the said person, I would alter the genetics to cause it to be a female.
So, what did GOd do when He created Eve? |
I don't know - all I believe is that He took the Rib from Adam and created Eve. I don't have information as to HOW therefore, I assume it was important for me to know that.
Paul |
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trettep
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Reconciling Evolution as a Christian |
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| FFT wrote: | | trettep wrote: | | What is the core statement of evolution? |
"Populations evolve."
| admin wrote: | | Just for the record - Evolution does not say we came from apes. Ironically, this statement is only said by creationists when trying to refute evolution. But evolution does not say this. |
It doesn't, but we and other apes definitely descended from an apelike ancestor. |
I agree populations evolve (micro evolution).
Paul |
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RevJP
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| trettep wrote: | | I don't know - all I believe is that He took the Rib from Adam and created Eve. I don't have information as to HOW therefore |
Anyone know what is in a rib?
| Quote: | | Likely because I know what it actually is, as compared to most of the people who post against it, |
I'm impressed with your superior intellect, thank you for pointing it out to all of us.
| Quote: | | I am a Christian and I have no problem at all accepting Evolution |
Define 'christian', as you use it.
| Quote: | | people who post against it, and who shows an astonishing ignorance |
A demonstration of your intellect perhaps?
| Quote: | | I don't see Genesis 1 as a literal science text book. I don't see the Bible at all as a textbook in what happened or how it happened. |
At least there is something we can agree on.
| Quote: | | I see creationism as weak faith, as faith that can not be sustained without physical evidence of God. |
How do you define 'faith' exactly? Could you explain why faith would require physical evidence to be sustained?
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RevJP
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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but we and other apes definitely descended from an apelike ancestor.
Isn't this the main bone of contention between TOE and Creationism? TOE claims evolution from a common apelike ancestor and creationism sustains that humankind was created as is. As you said earlier, the origin of life is irrelevant in this debate, but macroevolution is the real issue. Creationists deny it, evolutionist worship it, and both are left with only their belief without one honest shred of proof.
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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SDMD
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Reconciling Evolution as a Christian |
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| trettep wrote: | | I agree populations evolve (micro evolution). |
What do you mean with "micro evolution"? How is that different from "Evolution" What is it NOT that Evolution is?
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Geology: fossils of different ages
Paleontology: fossil sequence & species change over time.
Taxonomy: biological relationships
Evolution: explanation that ties it all together.
Creationism: squeezing eyes shut, wailing "DOES NOT!" |
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