Redeemed from the curse

golfjack · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:36 am Post subject: Redeemed from the curse

Galations 3:13, Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree.

Christ has redeemed us from the curse. We are not under the curse. That is what He did for us. It is ours now. We don't have to cry, pray, and fast three weeks and promise that we'll do better if He'll just give it to us. It all goes with the Gospel. It as just as much ours as our hands and feet are. All we have to do is start using it. The hour is now.

Hebrews 1:1-14 tells us Jesus is seated on the right hand of God. We are expecting Him to come back. But I want to ask you a question: How long is Christ going to sit there in Heaven? The answer is found in verse 13: until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The only way God is going to overcome the enemy is through the Body of Christ, the Church. The last enemy to be put underr foot by Jesus Christ is death itself (1 Cor. 15:26).

FFT · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:40 am Post subject:

Which curse? Do you speak of the curse of Genesis?
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Star · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:51 pm Post subject:

I like this one too...

2Titus 1:10 But IS NOW made manifest """"by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ""" WHO (((HATH))) ABOLISHED DEATH, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
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God love ya In Him Starlaa

golfjack · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:40 pm Post subject: reply

Star, I believe you must have meant 1 Tim 1:10. I do this sometimes myself. Jesus indeed abolished death (spiritual death). When you read the scriptures, I hope you recognize that Paul is talking to believers and not to unbelievers. Only those who accept the message of the Gospel will be saved from the curse of Spiritual Death.

May God bless, golfjack

Star · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject:

Absolutely Golf and yes forgive the "itus" rather then the "m" on the book quote you are correct.

In the context of the grace of God, He tasted death for everyman, and yes under the law one is still under the curse and that which worketh wrath and bringeth forth fruit unto death= hate.

The law (or The Ministration of death) is not of faith therefore Gal 5:4 Christ is """"become of no effect unto you""" whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Thats why menstealers, those who enslave others (who are made free in Christ) and bring them into bondage to the law themselves are not truly free. He who leads into captivity goes into captivity.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the """motions of sins"" which were BY THE LAW, did work in our members """"to bring forth fruit unto death"""

1John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, """because we love""" the brethren. He that """loveth not""" [his] brother """abideth in death""" (they have not yet passed over to life yet)

Paul said as we all are of those who lived hating one another and being hated children of disobedience (under the law) but they had passed over from death itself into life by the grace of God.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded """is death""" but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.

So it is by the Spirit of God and His great mercy that He releases one from the law of sin and death, its already finished just needs to be realized in each one. One simply cannot see it, or just has not passed over into the realization of Gods all sufficient grace.
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God love ya In Him Starlaa

lone-traveler · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:08 am Post subject:

There are two sides of that law though. There is the side with all the blessings, and the side with all the curses.
Are all the blessings done away with too?

I believe that Christ himself became the cursed side. That we are no longer under the judgement and condemnation of man himself to carry out the punishment. But Christ redeeming us from the curses is the judge himself.

I try to give an example of what I mean in my opinion.

When they found the woman who had commited adultery, the curse side of the law said men have to take it upon themselves to judge her, and finding her guilty, must stone her. She was under the curse of the law. Because she had broken the law.

When Jesus came and the men asked: the law says to stone her, what do you say? He who is blameless and sinless cast the first stone. There is no man on this planet that can fill those shoes. Amen? So at that very moment they had to take a real hard look at themselves, and judge themselves whether they were pure or perfect enough. They all left.

I believe that this is the curse that was removed. The death sentence of breaking the law. Jesus himself was made a lawbreaker by being hung on a tree. He became accursed and took the death penalty of the law upon himself. When he died the curse died with him. When he rose from the dead, the curse remained dead and buried.

Man himself is not supposed to judge others to death. This is God's job. He is the avenger. And who is more capable of being a judge than God himself? And yet we are to judge ourselves, to make sure we keep in step with God and abide by the laws of righteousness.

The laws are good, they bring health, they cause peace, they are just and merciful. To do away with all the laws would bring lawlessness and confusion. We need a standard to go by. And God gave us one.
His law. The way if he were here on earth today things would be run.

But to have a man judge another man to death, this is the curse. Because man himself is incapable of judging himself let alone another. The curse of man killing man by justification under the law is gone. No man is justified under the law. You cannot recieve the true Spirit of the law if you are living under the old letter of the law. If you kill a man because he committed a crime, you will not be justified by that judgement to kill.

If you yourself commit a crime, you are no longer obligated under the law of ordinances to slay an animal for sacrifices to atone for your sins. You are however, obligated to approach the Lord in prayer and ask him for forgiveness because he is our lamb that was slain for us.

It is the curse that was removed. Not the law itself. If you read the laws of moses you will see that they are good laws. And if we ourselves were to abide by those laws, the world would be a much better place to live. There would be peace. Instead of manmade laws which cause not much relief to those who are under them.

David himself regarded the laws as righteous and good and wonderful and merciful. Read psalm 119. Not one bad word about them. He loves them, he delights in them, he tries very hard to live by them. And when he does wrong, He asks God in prayer to please forgive him for going out of the way. He prays for guidence for mercy, for aid against his enemies.
Is David wrong? Are the laws themself so horendously evil that they had to be done away with?
I don't believe so, I believe the curses were done away, if one follows God with all his heart mind and soul none of those curses will come on him. And he doesn't have to kill an animal if he makes a mistake.
However, Those who do not trust in God and abide by the rules do end up paying for it. They themselves live with poorness even though they appear rich. They themselves are sickly even though they appear to be in health. They themselves will perish even though they appear to survive. They appear to be full, but are truly hungry. why? Because they don't abide by the laws of the land.

The world today is an example. If you break man's law you go to jail. or you pay a penalty of some sort. God's laws are no different accept with one exception God himself is the judge and jury and the bail bondman. Everybody has to live by a law. I believe Daniel was a very good example of this. Man had made a law that went against God's law. Nebbuchadnezzar said bow down and worship this image I made. God's law says to bow down to none but him. What did Daniel do? Listen to man or God?

I believe in acts there is a part where one of the Apostles said, we aught to obey God rather than men. How can we obey a righteous God without a righteous set of laws to go by? The laws are there. And they are good. And the penance is not in the hands of man. The judgement is God's. If you read the psalm I wrote yesterday you will see that God hands the authority over to the King. And the King and his son reign over the earth with righteousness and mercy.
I believe the King, Jesus will have authority of the law in his hands to rule and judge the nations and kingdoms that will reign with him on earth.
He will reign for 1000 years and bring the world and all that is in it back into subjection of God the Father.
How can a king rule a world without any laws? How would people know what is right and wrong? Do we know the best way to cultivate our lands for the best growth? The laws tell us how. Do we know the best way to care for the poor? The laws tell us how.
If we do away with God's laws, which we are doing today mind you, then it will become a world of lawlessness. And you can see this clear as day if you watch the news.
I believe the kingdom of God will come without observation when people start putting God's righteous and merciful and good laws back into practice. And then all enmity, all unrighteousness, all evil, all enemies, will be pt under his feet.
We have been given a gift. A Spirit that discerns falsehood from truth, evil from good. But we do not put it into practice because we deny the very laws the Spirit came to us to instill in the world. And there is a battle between man's laws and God's laws. And the more we push God's laws behind us and deny them, the more mans laws will succeed. And if man succeeds in doing away with justice, mercy, and truth, then we will see all of the devestations mentioned in revelations.
The bible tells us that it will happen, that man will try to overcome God by his own laws. And that it is for those who hear with the ear, and see with the eye, to understand with their heart, and to overcome evil with good.
Those that live by the word of God are those that will overcome, and not be led away into destruction.
So you have a choice. Gods law or mans law and God left it up to the individual to decide which way he wants to go.

Just do me one favor, read the laws that God set down for us to live by and tell me if you can find any unjust or unrighteousness in them.
Not the death penalties or the animal sacrifices, but the laws themselves.
The Judge will give out the penalties and the lamb has already been sacrificed. All that is left is prayer and praise, humbleness and forgiveness.
Before you throw away something at least take a look at it and see if it is good and true or bad and false.
I wouldn't want to throw out the blessings that were promised to those who obey. And the liberty with which we have been given, to be disentangled from the laws of man. If they go against God, they should go against you, because you are Gods, whoever you are that believes and has faith in the one who has brought us out of bondage.

Lone
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Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Star · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:16 am Post subject:

Lone,

There are two covenants. The obedience is the obedience to the faith, or those who obey the gospel of Christ. The doctrine of Christ. Theres also The laws intent Paul speaks of. Christ brought conviction to those sitting as Judges on the seat of Moses. They said they had Abraham (Faith) as their father but He said contrary that in themselves they trusted Moses (their accuser). Jesus said "Do not judge, do not condemn, fogive and it will be forgiving you" we are measured according to our own judgment, condemnation etc. No man is justified by the law. Even Jesus said you don't even keep the law. Which confirms what Paul said, the very power of sin is the law. "Thou shalt not covet" wrought in him the undesirable motion of sins under the law. They had dominion over Paul under the law.

Blessed are those who mourn, blessed are the merciful, blessed are the meek, blessed are the poor in spirit, blessed are the peacemakers,blessed are the pure in heart, blessed are ye when men hate you, blessed are you when your evil spoken of.

Psalm 94:12 Blessed [is] the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;

James 1:25 But whoso """"looketh into the perfect law of liberty"""" and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a """"doer of the work""" this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Psalm 112:1 Praise ye the LORD. Blessed [is] the man [that] feareth the LORD, [that] delighteth greatly in his commandments. (rom 7:22 ) For I delight in the """law of God""" after the inward man:Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the ""law of sin"" which is IN my members.

Who shall save Him from this BODY OF DEATH

Rev22:14 Blessed [are] they that DO his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

This has to be searched out on ones own, no one can do this study for you. Overcomers, are by faith in Christ, do they make void the law by this faith? No they establish the law all by Christ Jesus who comes to DO thy will thus fulfill by the shedding abroad in ones heart the love of God which not only fulfills the law but against such there is no law, the Royal law of love which hangs all the law and the prophets in a word, heard from the Beginning= Christ Jesus who IS the beginning. Walking in the law of love, kindness truth and righteousness not derived from self but by the Spirit of the living God. Christ alone sets one from from the power of Sin= Law into a living way. Your not free under the law but bound (as Paul showed, a slave to sin) If the Son makes you free you will be free indeed. Under the law one is free from control or the effect of Christ in them. The law is not of faith. Locked up, held, shut up UNTIL faith be revealed in one. The law makes us cry for mercy (wretched man that I am) under it... have you judged others? Have you shown mercy knowing you could not keep the law? Have we extended that which we have called out to God for? The merciful shall obtain mercy. Heres where the commands of Christ come in. As you have judged as you have forgiven. This is an awesome thing, showing God is just in His ways. Every idle word being brought into account and to me? Into your own experience according to the words of truth Himself.

Romans 3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the """"law of faith"""

Psalm 37:21 The """law of his God""" [is] """in his heart""" none of his steps shall slide.

Psalm 37:32 The wicked (without faith) watcheth the righteous (who walk by faith) and """seeketh to slay him""""

Psalm 37:33 The LORD will not leave him in his hand, """nor condemn him""" WHEN HE IS JUDGED

Isaiah 28:6 And for a """spirit of judgment""" to him that """"sitteth in judgment"""

1Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be """"judged according to men in the flesh""" but """"live according to God in the spirit."""

This truth of "whatever the law saith" saith to those under it, purpose? That mouths are shut not open against anyone (no one can throw stones at another) Christ showed this as the consciences convicted those who desired to judge the woman caught in adultery by the same law they themselves had not kept in truth.

Christ exposes hearts and we begin to know these things in ourselves as our own conscience is convicted by the truth.

One can only live up to the light they have been given on these things, but there are things which will challenge us to think on as we grow up into Him. Which is good.
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God love ya In Him Starlaa

lone-traveler · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:47 am Post subject:

Everything you say is good and true. I do not disagree with Love and mercy and faith and hope.
But people, star, are not able to exsist together on a planet without some form of standards set down and to be acknowledged and to go by.
Thats why God gave us laws. Do it this way and all will go well. Do it that way and your heading for trouble. The only time we head for trouble is if we break the law. Whether it be God's law or the law of the US, we are still under A law. But now who's law are you going to follow? One that leads to life and health and peace, or one that leads to destruction?

Some people that are put in power, presidents, prime ministers, kings, what have you. Some apply good principles to the way they govern their lands. They are based on compassion and justice and mercy. Others get into power and they destroy the good that was done by the previous person in position of power. They begin to get greedy, or break the rules themselves, and then change the laws so that they are not held accountable.

There is no difference from the way things are run today, then they were 3-4000 years ago. You get good kings who follow Gods laws, then you get bad kings that make up their own laws. It changes back and forth throughout the centuries. When the world is being led by the laws that men make up for themselves, usually thats when we run into social problems, environmental problems, things just don't go so well.

But when the principles of Gods laws are applied to our daily living. Passed down from the government to the people. Just laws and good, then we usually experience a time of peace and prosperity.

If the world were to base their principles just on agriculture alone, based on the principles in the bible, there would be better and more abundance of food to go around. But we changed the rules and made up our own. We add things like hormones, pesticides and who knows what else, just so they won't have to give the land rest every seven years. They cause the food to become less nutritious and less abundant than if we were to apply the law of God to allow the land to rest.

This is His earth, He did create it. I would think if anyone knew the best way to run it, it would be the founder himself no?

I believe the laws were created so that we could run a very efficient world. Where there would be no starvation, if the principles of not gleaning your field to the bareness, and leaving some for strangers and poor among you. If the poor today could by law go into a field and eat what was needed wouldn't that be more humane than having them take the last dollar out of their pocket for cat food to survive?

If the principles of the law were to be applied, it would be like heaven on earth. Each would have their own bit of land to cultivate, no apartment housing where if one apartment goes they all go. If someone is sick, then they go to the doctor and are taken care of. Not by cost but by compassion. Then they live a distance away from eachother causes less chance for diseases to spread. We're getting squished here. Everybody lives on top of everybody. How can they help but get annoyed with what goes on around them. There is no quiet time. No peace of mind.

All I'm saying starlite, is that if the world applied the principles of Gods law to the inhabitants on this earth, wouldn't it be a better place to live?

Lone
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Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

lone-traveler · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:02 am Post subject:

Rev, this is what I believe is at the bottom of the contention. Whether to go by the principles of the law or make up our own.
Many agree that the laws are good and should be followed today. And by this I mean the principles. Of mercy, justice, honesty. These I believe are the true spirit of the law.
God put a curse on them because of the hardness of mens hearts, and our inabilty to follow them in righteousness.
And that it is through Faith in Jesus who died and removed the curse, that it is this Faith that enables us to recieve the spirit of God. The spirit of righteousness, and goodness, and mercy, and hope. That through this power of the Holy Spirit mankind will be able to follow the principles set forth in the law.
We are not justified by the deeds of the law, but in the faith of the one who made it possible for us to live a righteous life through him.
My honest hope is that mankind will put away their own principles and apply the ones that are just and true. And those who have recieved the Spirit of Christ are the ones who will bring it about.
But until such a time, we will have to go through much tribulation and fire, until we realize that God's way is the only way we will survive.
The principles or spirit of the law is set there for mankind as a blueprint. Yes I agree. And if you take the blueprint and cut it up in pieces and take only some parts and apply them, you will not end up with the intended conclusion. Jesus took away the bad parts, what remains is pure.
He took away the tin and dross and left a perfect way to live.
For the mind, body, and soul.
If you do away with it all together then we are left to make up our own principles and guidelines. This is where I believe we are headed today.
Money makes the world go round. And until compassion comes from the heart instead of the wallet we will be floundering in greed and corruption. Until we end up destroying everything good that we have been given. Including this earth.

Lone
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Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Star · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:36 am Post subject:

Lone writes,

Everything you say is good and true. I do not disagree with Love and mercy and faith and hope.
But people, star, are not able to exsist together on a planet without some form of standards set down and to be acknowledged and to go by.

Star replies,

Sorry I got company here, I just wanted to mention this....

Agreed. We are to sumbit to governments even Jesus said of Pilate that he had no power except that which was given to him. Jesus didn't go about breaking their laws, in fact Pilate found no fault in Him. What I am talking about is before God we are freely justified by Gods grace through the faith of Christ. Were talking ""before God the Father"" not doing was is lawful among men, obviously theres a difference.

Grace and love does not run around breaking the laws that be. Were talking of different things here. A law which "imparts life"? None, or else Christ died in vain. I'm comparing covenants (justification by law or justification by the Grace of God in Christ) Not of worldly governments. The Spirit of God (Spirit of love and grace) does not ask us to break laws of men but can still as our Lord walk in the world and not be of it and still find Pilate finding no fault in them.

If you want to talk about "this worlds law", or the "law of Moses" or the Royal law of love in Christ these differ. I was not sharing on these as a whole. Where do you see me talking about breaking laws? lol
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God love ya In Him Starlaa