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Has the Law of Moses been Abolished?


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TeChNoWC
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Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:18 am    Post subject: Re: My answer Reply with quote

Zathrus wrote:


vsjb34, while I will not say that infidelity, lying, cheating, stealing, etc are healthy things to do, I will say that by New Testament standards, any mistake we may make, no matter how grave, has already been payed for and washed clean by the blood Jesus shed for us. By New Teatament standards, God does not hold our faults and mistakes against us no matter how serious or how frequent they may be.
Very Happy


Hebrews

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."
31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
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james
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SS,

Quote:
Paul,himself.... kept all the commandments of God.....
Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.

I'm sure, that it does not...take a genius to realize that if Paul were keeping Sunday servcies, in honor of Christ's resurrection...it most certainly would have offended the Jews.
Col 2:16-17

Are you stating that you believe that the Jews were not offended by Paul?
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Silver Surfer
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Joined: 12 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james wrote:
SS,

Quote:
Paul,himself.... kept all the commandments of God.....
Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.

I'm sure, that it does not...take a genius to realize that if Paul were keeping Sunday servcies, in honor of Christ's resurrection...it most certainly would have offended the Jews.
Col 2:16-17

Are you stating that you believe that the Jews were not offended by Paul?

I merely stated what Paul said 'in his own words'.....

Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.

If you want to think the Bible contradicts itself....it is a free country, and you have the right to say that the Bible, is wrong.
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james
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SS wrote,

Quote:
If you want to think the Bible contradicts itself....it is a free country, and you have the right to say that the Bible, is wrong.


Never said any of this, I just asked a question. You seem to hang on to EGWhites writings more than the bible, yourself. You have replaced the word of God with the word of a plagarist.Hard to tell if your talking about what she believed or what the bible says. These are two totally different things.
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Silver Surfer
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james wrote:


You seem to hang on to EGWhites writings more than the bible, yourself.

Actually, I use them equally.

Observe this Bible verse very carefully......

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

QUESTION: What is...the 'testimony of Jesus Christ' ?

There is no need to guess.......because the Bible tells what it is.....

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Now, would you agree with me that any Prophet of God's....would have that gift, the 'Spirit of Prophecy' ?


Quote:

You have replaced the word of God with the word of a plagarist.

The word 'Plagarist'....would that include Isaiah & Micah:

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, [that] the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Micah 4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

******************************************

Did Plagarism occur here, in the following Bible verses ?

Jude 1:4-18 & 2 Peter 2:1-3,18

2 Chronicles 36:22-23 & Ezra 1:1-3

Psalms 18:2-50 &2 Samuel 22:2-51

And Let's not forget, Matthew......Mark....Luke....who copied whom there ?
a FULL 95% of the content of Mark, is in Matthew and or Luke

And Paul...who copied Jeremiah ?

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


[quote]
Hard to tell if your talking about what she believed or what the bible says.
Quote:

These are two totally different things.
That only proves one thing.....you either don't know the Bible well enough..... or, that you have read EGW writings enough to see that they are from God, in comparasion to the Bible.
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james
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SS,

Do you yet understand the meaning of plagarism?

Again there is a huge difference between bible writters quoting each other for they did NOT take credit nor say that it was their own. EG White quoted others says it was HER OWN, also trying to take the credit for them as hers.

Quote:
Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Now, would you agree with me that any Prophet of God's....would have that gift, the 'Spirit of Prophecy' ?


Yes, I would agree that a Prophet would have that gift, but I ask you - Is the testimony of Jesus the Spirit of FALSE PROPHESY?
Remember one of the things God CANNOT do is, lie.
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Silver Surfer
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james wrote:
Again there is a huge difference between bible writters quoting each other for they did NOT take credit nor say that it was their own. EG White quoted others says it was HER OWN, also trying to take the credit for them as hers.


SHOW ME !

If you are going to throw around accusations......I want evidence-proof, OK ?
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james
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SS,

Top of page 2 in the Phil 2:12 thread you accepted that fact. Ever read 'History of protestantism' by J.A. Wylie published in 1876 or J.N. Andrews '3 messangers of Rev 14' published in 1860, because if you had you do not need to read the 'Great contraversy' which EG white put out in the late 1880's claiming it was her own work. And I won't bother to mention the publishing company that threatened to sue her and forced her to pull another work she attempted to plagarize.

How is it you do not know that she did these things? They are easy to research out and the evidence is very damaging. Just search her out and anyone can see her whole life was a ' great contraversy'.


I would rather focus on the question below......for if you wish to stand on EG Whites writings, that is your right to choose, reguardless of what I or anyone says.

Do you have an answer for my question - Is the testimony of Jesus the Spirit of FALSE PROPHESY?
Remember one of the things God CANNOT do is, lie.
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Silver Surfer
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james wrote:
SS,

Top of page 2 in the Phil 2:12 thread you accepted that fact. Ever read 'History of protestantism' by J.A. Wylie published in 1876 or J.N. Andrews '3 messangers of Rev 14' published in 1860, because if you had you do not need to read the 'Great contraversy' which EG white put out in the late 1880's claiming it was her own work. And I won't bother to mention the publishing company that threatened to sue her and forced her to pull another work she attempted to plagarize.

Maybe I should have explained it better.....
From you I want where, in the Great Controversy she supposedly copied (page #).....and then, the original stuff she supposed to have copied.
OK ?

In other words, I want to put them side by side and see exactly word for word, where she supposedly copied.
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doctrellor
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james wrote:
SS,

Quote:
Paul,himself.... kept all the commandments of God.....
Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.

I'm sure, that it does not...take a genius to realize that if Paul were keeping Sunday servcies, in honor of Christ's resurrection...it most certainly would have offended the Jews.
Col 2:16-17

Are you stating that you believe that the Jews were not offended by Paul?


Yeah SS, just look at the Ebionites who abhored Paul so much, that they declared him a false apostle and refused his works ..

In fact, todays Messianics are also slowly turning that way .. and some openly take Pauls letters out of thier NT's

So yeah ... Not just Jews, but a few beleivers in Christ are also offended by Paul ...
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Silver Surfer
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doctrellor wrote:

So yeah ... Not just Jews, but a few beleivers in Christ are also offended by Paul ...
My experience is opposite of that.

I find many Christians taking the words of Paul, over the words of Jesus Christ, Himself.

Many people will show where Paul says that God's Laws are abolished, or changed.

When Jesus Christ Himself said that they would NOT change in any shape or form.

And I believe that is on the point of God's Law...is the reason God placed a warning, on Paul's writings.
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james
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SS,

The information is in the books I gave.
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Silver Surfer
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EGW wrote this.

Now, see how many errors you can find....

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves" (2 Cor. 13:5).

Closely criticize the temper, the disposition, the thoughts, words, inclinations, purposes, and deeds.

How can we ask intelligently for the things we need unless we prove by the Scriptures the condition of our spiritual health? {1SM 89.1}

Many in their religious life are making crooked paths for their feet.
Their prayers are offered in a loose, haphazard manner. He who is placed in a position of responsibility should remember that of himself he is not able to do that which is required of him.

Every day he should remember that he is a spectacle unto the world, to angels, and to men. {1SM 89.2}


No one is to wait to be borne to fields of labor and provided with costly facilities for doing good.

He who serves must cheerfully take up his work, however humble it is, and wherever he may be placed. Christ, our example in all things, was poor, that through His poverty He might make many rich. {1SM 89.3}

He whose heart is filled with the grace of God and love for his perishing fellow men will find opportunity,
wherever he may be placed, to speak a word in season to those who are weary.

Christians are to work for their Master in meekness and lowliness, holding fast to their integrity amid the noise and bustle of life. {1SM 89.4}

God calls upon men to serve Him in every transaction of life.
Business is a snare when the law of God is not made the law of the daily life.

He who has anything to do with the Master's work is to maintain unswerving integrity.
In all business transactions, as verily as when on bended knees he seeks help from on high, God's will is to be his will.

He is to keep the Lord ever before him, constantly studying the subjects about which the Holy Word speaks.

Thus, though living amid that which would debase a man of lax principles, the man of piety and stern integrity preserves his Christianity. {1SM 90.1}

The world is no more favorable today for the development of Christian character than in Noah's day.

Then wickedness was so widespread that God said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. . . . Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God" (Gen. 6:7-9).
Yes, amid the corruption of that degenerate age, Noah was a pleasure to his Creator. {1SM 90.2}

We are living in the last days of this earth's history, in an age of sin and corruption, and like Noah we are to so live that we shall be a pleasure to God, showing forth the praises of Him "who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light" (1 Peter 2:9).

In the prayer which Christ offered to His Father just before His crucifixion, He said, "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil" (John 17:15). {1SM 90.3}
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james
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SS,

You forgot some:

In Evangelism P.598 'She wrote' - Satan, who is the father of lies, decieved Adam in a similar way, telling him he need not obey God,.........
Compared with what scripture says in I Tim 2:14 - And Adam was NOT decieved, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Or what about in Health Reformer Aug 1,1866 'She wrote' - It is a sin to be sick, all sickness is a result of transgression.
Scriptually this also is false teaching, we just have to look at Job 2:3,7 and also 2 Cor 12:1-10 concerning Paul being buffeted by a messenger of satan.

This just names a couple. I am very familiar with EGWhites writings for this was one of the first denomination I looked into when I came to the Lord. I read many of her false prophesyies and know of many of her writings to be unscriptual, this is what turned me away from the SDA church. Especially how she taught we are still under the law of Moses.
Also if you read EG Whites account of Martin Luthers conversion and when he was at Rome, Both accounts she claimed to recieve by a vision, they differ from Martin Luthers.

Sometimes I do wonder, just how much you truely know about your 'EG White'?
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Silver Surfer
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

How can one reconcile the fact that we are saved by Grace through faith, with the idea that we are still somehow subject to the dictates of OT law?

Because Jesus Christ said so ?

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


Quote:

Doesn't compulsory obedience to a set of rules by definition contradict salvation by Grace through Faith?

Compulsory ?
That sounds like legalism to me.

It sounds to me like this person has yet to understand....how Grace, and Faith, and Law, all fit together to become the Gospel message which Jesus Christ taught.
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