Dialogues on the Trinitarian Doctrine

metothezero

Lets start off with the basics, Ladies first, Explain to me what you believe as far as the trinity is concerened. You don't really have to give me biblical reference, Just the philisophical thesis will do for now, so that a basic understanding of the ground work is established.

Bridget · Rattlesnake Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 443

I believe that the Bible plainly tells us that in the book of Genesis God chose Abraham to start off His one God religion. I am aware that we as Christians are a part of a new covenent, but I do not believe that this faith in one God was done away with. Who ever or whom ever is with God makes little or no difference, there is one almighty and sovereign God. We are seeing a continuation of this in the Jewish community today and in Israel. It cannot be denied and it will not go away. I have always felt this in my heart and then after further study and finding the meeting in Nicia and knowing Constantine was behind it settled it for me. Although Constantine later became a Christian he was not a Christian at the time and those in attendance were to afraid to go up against him.
I believe that Jesus,raised in a Jewish family would not go against this one God who He called His Father and who He said on many occasions was the one who sent Him and who told Him what to say and do. There are two more points I would like to make here; the first, The church for many years denied the fact that Jesus was a Jewish person, and second many pagens entered the church which in the beginning was only Catholic. They have retained a lot of pagen influences, why I'll never understand. Most of it isn't Biblical.

metothezero · Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 8:36 am Post subject:

First, You must realize that trinitarians DO NOT believe in more then one God, we whole heartedly take Isaiah 44-46 to be exactly what it says, there is no other God besides that of Jehovah.

Yes Constantine organized the Nicean council, but the idea of the trinity was around before this council met. Consider this, Constantine's birth is said to be as early as 274 and as late as 288, but listen to what these early Christian apologist have to say.

Bridget · Rattlesnake Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 443

I believe in God the Father and the son and the Holy Spirit, but I will not put all three together to make one God. God the Father is the almighty one, creator, maker of heaven and earth, the Son is the mediator and the one who puts our prayers before the throne of God, and the Holy Spirit lives inside each and every born again Christian. Three separate and unique persons, each with His own idenity and reason for being. So when you tell me you believe in one God but that one God is three its does not compute. I believe that Jesus was sent to us to bring Gods people back to Him. He came so they could have a means of forgiveness they had lost through their disobedience to God. This is recorded in the OT. Some Jews accepted the forgiveness God offered them through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, others as we plainly see today refused to accept it.

metothezero · Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:52 pm Post subject:

Who is Jesus then, If he is not God, then who? An angel?

Bridget · Rattlesnake Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 443

Jesus an Angel? Are you kidding me. There is more text in the Bible explaning just who Jesus is then almost anything else. Do you recall when Jesus went to John the Baptist to be baptised what God called Him. "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased" Jesus is God's son. If God went to all the trouble to find Abraham and took all those years to establish a one God religion, why do you think He would share it with anyone even His own Son. He could have just as easily chosen to send Jesus to the Pagens. But He didn't did He. He sent Jesus to the Jews. There weren't too many religions to choose from at the time. You were Jew or gentile, gentile meaning a person who was not a Jew, that would include pagens.

metothezero · Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:35 pm Post subject:

Do we worship this Son?

metothezero · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2003 7:19 am Post subject:

Bridgett, Are you there??

Bridget · Rattlesnake Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 443

Yes I'm still around. I just can't get on every nite. We worship God through His son Jesus Christ. This is because He is our mediator between ourselves and God. If you understand the Old Testament then it would be easier to understand the New and the role Jesus Christ plays in it. I do not worship Jesus as God. I pray to Him and ask Him to relate my prayers to the Father. I do not believe that Jesus Himself can answer our prayers.

metothezero · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2003 12:26 pm Post subject:

Yet God told the angels to worship him, (Heb 1:6) and we find Jesus being worshipped in (Matt 2:2, 2:8, 2:11, 8:2, 9:18, 14:33, 15:25, 20:20, 28:9, 28:17, Mark 5:6, Luke 24:52, John 9:38). It is Jesus who is worshipped, not God thru Jesus. The terms are for the most part in the majority of the references, They worshipped him.

The matter here is not whether Jesus can answer prayers, or whether you pray to Jesus. The subject is worship. Do you worship Jesus? Out of all the references, it must be implied that God was worshipped thru the Son.

metothezero · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:03 pm Post subject:

Bridget · Rattlesnake Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 443

I read the scriptures you indicated but I see no reference in them that anyone claimed Jesus Christ was God. I therefore do not believe I am mistaken in my belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. My suggestion to you would have to be to go back and read the scriptures you gave me once more.
I think most people loved Him because of the things He said and did. He loved His people and it showed in the ways He protected them, healed them. He understood His power to heal the sick came from God the Father. I have read and reread the NT and I don't see it from your point of view.

thunder · Lion King Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1222

Why did Christ get put to death that day on the cross ?

Christ was put to death because of His claim to be God. The jewish religion never knew that He was God so they wrongfully came to the conclusion that, since Jesus could not possibly be God ( the religious people of the time were looking for the promised messiah to come as a prince, a king dressed in regal robes and garments and having a staff of iron in his hand. They were not ready to receive a lowly carpenter's son as the promised messiah ) therefore, they assumed that He must be a blasphemer, a heretic and must by religious decree be put to death for saying that He was God. Jesus would not recant.

Jesus was given plenty of opportunities to recant but He knew that if He did recant, He would be lieing and He knew that he could not sin so, He held true to His confession, and He was put to death for that reason alone.

If Jesus was not God almighty, He could have stopped the whole legal process and not been nailed to the cross. But since He was God ( and is God ) He knew that every former prophesy concerning the messiah to come was being answered in His actions that day and at that moment.

" I am the life," " I am the gardener," " I am the bread of life," " I am He," " I am the door," " I am the light," " I have come in my fathers name ( since Jesus' name is Jesus, the fathers name is...Jesus )," " I have come that you might have life, and have it more abundently," " I am," " I am the Alpha and Omega," " Fear not, I am the first and the last, I am the living one and was dead, behold I am alive for ever, and have the keys of death and hell."

Note : the devil didn't know that Jesus was God either. If he had known, he certainly would not have worked to have Jesus put to death. By putting Jesus to death, he helped fulfilled scripture that Jesus is the Christ, and the devil winced at his gross error.

When Jesus died, His Spirit, the Spirit of God, came out of Him and went into hell to get back the keys of death and hell the devil had stolen. When the devil recognised the Spirit of God he asked," what are you doing here?" The Lord's eyes looked up and everyone could see Jesus on the cross. His lifeless body slumped in death, and the Spirit of God smiled at the devil, put out His hand and took the keys away from satan.

The devil slumped, knowing that he was the fool of God all along.

" God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself."

Be at ease ! Jesus is the Christ and the one and only God.

thunder

metothezero · Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:17 pm Post subject:

That's poetic...is it scriptural or "thunderal"?

revmattchoo.com · House Cat Joined: 02 Sep 2003 Posts: 165

few questions:

if Jesus is God Himself, then how could He have stepped off His Heavenly throne in order to come down here to us and leave the comos in another being's hands, if there were a being that were able to be equated to God?

next, if Jesus is God Himself, then why...
Matthew 3:17 "and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, 'This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.'"
Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."