How the Holy Spirit Leads Us.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

I disagree with you that the Holy Spirit does not convict us of sin. We have just been discussing John 16:8 where it states that quite clearly.

Before a man can walk in righteousness he has to see his need for a Savior. Since he is born in sin because of the sin of Adam he must be made aware of this sinful state. This is what the Holy Spirit does through the preaching of the Word.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

I would also add that as believers we can grieve the Holy Spirit by sinning. Who has not felt this after they have sinned? This is conviction.

Van · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 8:23 am Post subject:

Vsjb34 - your last post on the previous page (actually two Wink

) were on the mark in my opinion, and I am in complete agreement.

gswisher, your view misses the mark, and has nothing to do with the verses (Romans 8:14-15) in view. You deny sanctification, of being conformed to image of Christ by the leading of the Holy Spirit. That is a whole other, post salvation process of conviction.
What is in view here is that the Holy Spirit convicts the unsaved through the power of God's word, which is inspired by the Holy Spirit and brought to the unsaved through Spirit filled believers, directly and indirectly.

The premise was that the bondage to sin that leads to fear again, referred to our pre-salvation state where we turned to Christ because we feared the wrath of God because we were convicted of our sin. I think that is only a part of one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit and more is in view in Romans 8:14-15. When the jail door is open, sure we leave because we do not like the punishment, but also we leave seeking freedom.

Jesus put it this way, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."(NIV, John 8:334-36)

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

Right on Van! Now we are in synch.

Van · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 8:39 am Post subject:

Thanks Vsjb34, the Word of God is wonderful, powerful and humbling because it contains so much! Praise be to God.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

I think that "the freedom we seek" as you put it is kind of pointed out by Romans 8:15 we see our only freedom in Christ who through his Blood reunites us to the Father and so now we can cry Abba Father. Verses 14 and 15 are a parallel, at least that is what Lloyd-Jones asserts, and so it is the same Spirit. He convicts and because He shows us our sinful state indirectly He leads us to Christ who reunites us with the Father. This also seems to fit in with Romans 7:7-25. In my opinion anyway.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

My point is that the Holy Spirit does not condemn believers us as sinners. The passage in John speaks about the world. The passage in Ephesians says we can grieve the Spirit--not that he puts us under condemnation. Instead, you have received the Spirit of adoption.

Rom 8:4 so that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:6 To set our minds on the flesh leads to death, but to set our minds on the Spirit leads to life and peace.

Rom 14:17 For God's kingdom does not consist of food and drink, but of righteousness, peace, and joy produced by the Holy Spirit

Rom 15:13 And may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, for you to abound in hope, in power of the Holy Spirit.

1Jo 4:13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because of His Spirit He has given to us.

The SPirit teaches us to know what God has done for us.

1Co 2:12 But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
1Co 2:13 Which things we also speak, not in words taught in human wisdom, but in Words taught of the Holy Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

Gswisher,

I think you miss the point. We are not talking about condemnation. We are talking about conviction.

Unbelievers, the world are condemned until they accept Christ. In the process of salvation they are convicted.

Believers are not condemned when they grieve the Holy Spirit but they ARE convicted. There is a difference. Condemnation and conviction are not the same thing.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

Van,

I have no idead what you are trying to say. Where did I make any reference to Romans 8:14-15? I denied sanctification? WHat are you talking about?!

Van · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:20 am Post subject:

Vsjb34, very good point about the difference between condemnation and conviction. I am with you completely on this point.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

Van,

I'm waiting for your response.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

We're rocking Van and this is why Bible study rocks!!!!

Yes, Gswisher we are getting all this from two very important verses in the Bible.

That is why we need to do this slowly. You miss all these things when you fly through this book.

Reread the thread. Slowly. We have just developed our connection with Romans 7:7-25.

Conviction has a lot to do with sanctification. Paul exhorts us to mortify the deeds of the flesh.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

If you reread the thread you will discover Gswisher that Acts 2 where Peter preaches at Pentecost was brought into the discussion. We were talking about the process of salvation. We talked about how conviction happened in that passage.

This passage is parallel. You cannot cry Abba Father until you have experienced Romans 8:14, the preceding verse. This is conviction. Romans 7:7-25 is a perfect picture of conviction by someone who has not responded by repenting YET.

Please follow along.

Nobby · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 10:10 am Post subject:

gswisher, I know you are a believer & have your own beliefs, & that's Ok. But I would like to ask you some questions to help me under what you believe. These are questions that could be answered with a yes or no.

As a believer do you ever sin?
Does the Holy Spirit convict (Remind) of it very quickly?
Do you ask the Lord forgiveness of it?
If it was again a Bro. did you ask his forgiveness?
Do you believe that if we sin, that sin is already covered, & we don't have to ask forgiveness?