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OldSchoolTheocrat
Sea Monkey
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Florida, USA
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 Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| They are the ones "bought from the earth" as Revelation 14:3 says. They would obviously be individuals that spent their life on earth in loyal service to God. As far as what they will do there, Revelation 20:6 says: “They will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.” |
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shepreach
Cobra
Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 488
Location: ga
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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ost,
sorry. it took me a while. also sorry that the post is so long.
OST wrote:
| Quote: | | At Luke 12:32, Jesus said: “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.” The reason that Jesus called them a "little flock" is expounded on in Rev. chapter 7 and chapter 14. |
I see no connection between the “do not worry” injunction that Luke 12:32 is a part of and chapters 7 & 14 of Revelation.
And:
| Quote: | | You see, these cannot be the tribes of natural Israel because there never was a tribe of Joseph, the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are not included in the list here, and the Levites were set aside for service in connection with the temple but were not reckoned as one of the 12 tribes, according to Numbers 1:4-16. |
Numbers 1:1-16
1The LORD spoke to Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tent of meeting, on the first day of the second month, in the second year after they had come out of the land of Egypt, saying: 2Take a census of the whole congregation of Israelites, in their clans, by ancestral houses, according to the number of names, every male individually; 3from twenty years old and upward, everyone in Israel able to go to war. You and Aaron shall enroll them, company by company. 4A man from each tribe shall be with you, each man the head of his ancestral house. 5These are the names of the men who shall assist you: From Reuben, Elizur son of Shedeur. 6From Simeon, Shelumiel son of Zurishaddai. 7From Judah, Nahshon son of Amminadab. 8From Issachar, Nethanel son of Zuar. 9From Zebulun, Eliab son of Helon. 10From the sons of Joseph: from Ephraim, Elishama son of Ammihud; from Manasseh, Gamaliel son of Pedahzur. 11From Benjamin, Abidan son of Gideoni. 12From Dan, Ahiezer son of Ammishaddai. 13From Asher, Pagiel son of Ochran. 14From Gad, Eliasaph son of Deuel. 15From Naphtali, Ahira son of Enan.16These were the ones chosen from the congregation, the leaders of their ancestral tribes, the heads of the divisions of Israel.
This numbering leaves out Levi because it is a census of soldiers. The children of Levi would not be going to war because they looked after the things of God
The twelve tribes began with the sons of Jacob, who was renamed Israel (Genesis 32:28). Those sons were: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, and Benjamin. Genesis, chapter 49 records Jacob’s blessings for his sons. Vv. 1and 2 call them together and the chapter ends this way: 28All these are the twelve tribes of Israel, and this is what their father said to them when he blessed them, blessing each one of them with a suitable blessing.
Levi was the tribe chosen to serve as priests in the temple. This did not disqualify them as a tribe. It only meant that their part of the inheritance was not a plot of land.
Joseph on the other hand, had 2 sons whom Jacob had blessed earlier. They were Manasseh and Ephraim. These 2 inherited Joseph’s portion (Genesis 48:5, 22). They were called half- tribes so that the number would still total twelve (Joshua 1:12).
I have no idea why Dan was left off the list in Revelation 7 unless it had something to do with Jacob’s blessing.
And:
| Quote: | | Plus, the Apostle Paul explained that the title of "Jew" at this point had a much more spiritual significance when he said at Rom. 2:28, 29: “He is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code.” |
Paul was right. God also tells us this in the Old Testament when He talks about Israel as a nation.
I would not argue whether the 144,000 is a literal number. It may very well be. |
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shepreach
Cobra
Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 488
Location: ga
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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oops!  that should be gen. 32:28. don't know where the cool dude came from. i didn't put it there. |
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OldSchoolTheocrat
Sea Monkey
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 6:21 am Post subject: |
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shepreach,
The explanation about the tribes differing lies in what we know from the scriptural accounts of each tribe. We know from Genesis 49: 3,4 that Reuben lost his right as firstborn by his misconduct.
Then Joseph (the firstborn son of Jacob through his second, but favorite, wife Rachel) gained the privileges of firstborn son, including the right to have two parts, or portions, in Israel, according to Genesis 48:21,22.
So in the Revelation list “Joseph” evidently stands for Ephraim. And Manasseh represents Joseph’s second portion in spiritual Israel.
Now, the tribe of Levi is listed; to make room for Levi without increasing the number of tribes, no tribe of Dan is included in Revelation 7:4-8, but apparently not because of any unsuitability on Dan’s part. The inclusion of Levi would also serve to show that there is no special priestly tribe in spiritual Israel, the entire spiritual nation being “a royal priesthood”, according to 1 Peter 2:9. |
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Fake
Tiger
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 862
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| shepreach wrote: | | oops! that should be gen. 32:28. don't know where the cool dude came from. i didn't put it there. |
you get the "cool dude" by typing 8 ) without the space between 8 and ) , so you would have to type the reference as (Gen 32:28 )
Fake |
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shepreach
Cobra
Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 488
Location: ga
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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thanks fake. i'll try to remember that  |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5017
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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28) 28) 28) 28) 28) 28) 28) 28) 28) ___  |
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shepreach
Cobra
Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 488
Location: ga
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| yes, nobby, you are 2-cool for words. just think pretty soon i won't be apoodle anymore. |
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Fake
Tiger
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 862
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| shepreach wrote: | | yes, nobby, you are 2-cool for words. just think pretty soon i won't be apoodle anymore. |
You'll be a Pit Bull soon, that's where I am (or at least was before this post)
Fake |
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evahater
Little Guppy
Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 5:02 pm Post subject: Here is the coming of Christ |
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7th trump, Paul said something, Conrinthins
ah...here
1Co 15:52 - Show Context
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Some people say, the Roman Trumpet, 3 sounds, completely ubiblical, Jesus comes back at 777, 7 vile, 7seal, 7 trump
Paul Says
2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth F5 that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Satan always plays Jesus, morning star, here...Jesus says
Mt 24:15 - Show Context
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mr 13:14 - Show Context
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Read Daniel, Jesus himself ended up visiting him, don't believe me, Come on, White hair, eyes of fire, cloak dipped in blood. Same description in Revelation, This is the King of King and Lord of Lords. If you ask me, I will post you lazy lazy, I would write a third lazy, but i'm lazy. |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2587
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, you are correct.
The 144,000 will be the servants of God giving the Last Warning message to the people of earth just before Jesus comes again.
They will carry the "Everlasting Gospel" of Revelation 14:6-12 during the 'Mark of the Beast' scenerio, (Verse 9-11). |
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mijt1
Big Hamster
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 98
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| SS wrote: | | The 144,000 will be the servants of God giving the Last Warning message to the people of earth just before Jesus comes again. |
So how will that work then?
Going to take some organizing, doing it all over the earth |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2587
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| mijt1 wrote: | | SS wrote: | | The 144,000 will be the servants of God giving the Last Warning message to the people of earth just before Jesus comes again. |
So how will that work then?
Going to take some organizing, doing it all over the earth |
Since God is the one who will hand-pick each of the 144,000....He will also guide them, as he has guided the other prophets of the Old and the New Testaments. |
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Born Again
Tadpole
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="mijt1"] | SS wrote: | | The 144,000 will be the servants of God giving the Last Warning message to the people of earth just before Jesus comes again. |
So how will that work then?
----
Born Again here:
Hi, God has speeded things up in 'increased knowledge' for these LAST days.
Compare 12 with 144000. Would it take a long time with 12 disciples in todays setting to warn the world? Lets see, (using onlyTV)
in 1 peter 4:17 we see a JUDGEMENT of the House first. Out of this "SHAKING" (or falling away) comes the 144000 ready for the 'others folds' warning of Rev. 18:4.
Now lets 'first' compare what happened to Israel of old. Christ came to His own & they had a 'seven times' (see Lev. 16:14 or 27-34 AD) probational closing. Closed door of Matt. 25. See Matt. 23:38 for Christ's FINAL departure. (this true fold was rejected before the world was warned by the 14400 comparision or new church)
OK: Matt. 10:5-38 tells us the fate of this pure Virgin Fold & their ending.
Christ was already here telling this Truth in person. Now, take note of verse 23. It is an END TIME MESSAGE! Now back to you question, how can only 144000 finish a work that the whole world needs to hear?
The verse states: "But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: [for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, TILL THE SON OF MAN BE COME]." Again, remember that He was already there SPEAKING! He is telling of the SECOND TIME COMING!!
Israel today is 'SPIRITUAL'. She is a world VIRGIN FOLD. She has gone the same DESOLATE way as did Israel of old. Christ came to His own [FIRST]. Verse 5 of Matt. 10 finds the REAL SHAKING & SEPERATING OF THIS FOLD. (their last message! the answer to the Matt. 25 PARABLE!)
This FOLD are the ones who will persecute the REMNANT that fled its filth.
Rev. 12:17 The devil had & has both apostate Virgin folds of doctrine ONLY. Read Rev. 3:9
Now comes how it will finish quickly. Both Christ & Paul states that it will be cut short in Rightousness! (Latter rain of Joel 2 & Acts 2)
First off, the World is ALREADY IN ITS EARLY TIME OF TROUBLE! It escalates from small to the seven last plagues. (even small is past---look around!!)
In this Virgin Fold there is the same history being REPEATED as was of Israel. (see Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15) It will be so facinating for the world to watch by TV court/room documentation, two groups with the same professed doctrine once again persecuting & locking up & killing the 'remnant' who have come to view in Matt. 10:5-28! (but most inlightening is verse 23)
This is HOW THE TRUTH will finished. This is how the world will be reached! All of this will be as the DRAMA of a TV telecast war, or a telecast NBA all/star game or whatever? This is how the truth will be MATURELY IMPLANTED in earths mind. VERY QUICKLY!
Remember that ALL the world is in EVIL WICKED CHOAS. Yet, the great mass of its population are some type of God professors. (most are so in profession only) Quickly they will follow their leaders suggestion that God needs to see a revival!! Any thing to get out of this trouble. And they will be UNIFIED on what most are already (and only unified on) in agreement on, SUNDAY SACREDNESS! On comes 666 for the WORLDS FINAL TESTING OF FORCED WORSHIP.
---Born Again |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2168
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Born Again wrote: | And they will be UNIFIED on what most are already (and only unified on) in agreement on, SUNDAY SACREDNESS! On comes 666 for the WORLDS FINAL TESTING OF FORCED WORSHIP.
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Whew!! I guess I'm safe then. Sunday is no more sacred to me than any other day. I'll worship on any day I feel so led. |
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