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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2265
Location: WI USA
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 Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: 144,000 .... ? |
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| thunder wrote: | 144,000 .... ?
Heaven will be nearly hollow if that were true ... yes ... no ?
thunder |
Yes. The idea that only a literal 144,000 people will be saved is an idea taken seriously only by elitist quasi-Christian fringe groups who believe they and they alone are the end time Super-Saints. It's absurd.
While I don't know the significance of the number, I know the Revelation is full of allusions, symbolism and metaphors. That's what make it interesting! It can take a lifetime, and more, of study! |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2265
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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A passage from Rev 7:
| Quote: | 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
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First John sees them as Jews. Then the Lord shows him that this is an innumerable multitude, out of all nations, people and tongues. |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5141
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:51 pm Post subject: Welcome auntiem! |
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AuntieM, glad to see you post. I guess you didn't have any more problems
getting logged-in.  If you have questions about the board, you can ask the Mod (RevJP) or myself. Oh, be sure to read the rules at the top of the pages.
Enjoy yourself,
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auntiem
Not So Newbie
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Welcome auntiem! |
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| Nobby wrote: | AuntieM, glad to see you post. I guess you didn't have any more problems
getting logged-in. If you have questions about the board, you can ask the Mod (RevJP) or myself. Oh, be sure to read the rules at the top of the pages.
Enjoy yourself, |
Thanks for the welcome, Nobby. Yes, I finally got logged in! and I've read the rules. So far, the discussions look awesome and I'm looking forward to being a part of this study group.
AuntieM |
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auntiem
Not So Newbie
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Zathrus wrote: | | Mind if I volunteer my $.02? |
Hi Zathrus...I don't know if you're talking to me, but I sure don't mind. It's gonna take me a while to figure out how to use this format with the quotes, etc, but hopefully, I'll get the hang of it soon. (any pointers would be greatly appreciated  )
| Quote: | Moreover, the 144,000 are described in Rev 14 as having the Father's name written in their foreheads. Compare that with Rev 22:4 above.
I color coded sections of the passages above so you can easily see the parts of the description of the 144,000 that match up with descriptions of us believers.
It sure seems like the 144,000 is not a group of natural Jews, but a metaphorical description of the true Israel, those who are of faith. |
Rev. 7 states that these (the 144,000) were 'sealed'. We are told in 2 Cor.1:21 that ...He annointed us, set his seal of ownership[u]you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,[/u] on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. And in Eph. 1:13 ...Having believed, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession... Soo, it is clear that believers have already been sealed.
And then, as you pointed out, Rev. 14:1 states that these 144,000 have "...his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads", but is it possible (likely?) that the 'seal' and 'name on foreheads' is the same thing?
Also, are you saying that the 144,000 and the great multitude are one and the same?
AuntieM[/quote] |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2265
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| auntiem wrote: | Also, are you saying that the 144,000 and the great multitude are one and the same?
AuntieM |
Yeah, I think they are. I think God was showing John the church, in 2 different ways. Actually, in the course of the vision John saw, that we know as the Revelation, God showed him the church in several different ways.
The epistles do speak of the believers being sealed. I think that's the same sealing that's being mentioned in the Revelation. |
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eljofa
Newbie Alert
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:50 am Post subject: |
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here i think i know the number of men to be forgiven
for Jesus the King of the Saints said it in the bible
| Quote: | | Peter asks Jesus, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times but up to seventy times seven" (Matthew 18:21-22). |
if you calculate 70 multiplied by itself seven times it comes up to this
57,648,010
it you multiply it exponentialy it is
576480100000000
and i think the latest is the number of humans to be saved by Jesus
enjoy
eljofa |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5141
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| eljofa wrote: | | and i think the latest is the number of humans to be saved by Jesus |
I believe the key word here was "Think" 
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5141
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:44 am Post subject: Welcome |
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Hi eljofa,
Welcome to our board! Glad to have you aboard. If you have any questions about the board just ask RevJP (Mod) or myself (Nobby).
We'll be glad to answer if we can. Check out our board rules.
I'll be looking for your posts.
Take care,
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eljofa
Newbie Alert
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for welcoming me
i believe this about the end times and the mark
first,
you need to know how to count 666 in roman numerals
and when you do
it is like this
DCLXVI
which you can get to this
LVCIDX = LUCIDX
LUCI coming from lucifer of course
---------------------------------------
my point is this
welcome the world of the sixth sense
-----------------------------------------
God said
| Quote: | revelation
19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped his image. |
having said that
YOU WILL NOT GET DECEIVED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE MARK
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
here is a little ad of the ING bank with a 6 on the forehead of man
calling on the sixth sense
http://mesh-inc.com/frente.gif
PEOPLE REMEMBER
dead people are dead,
they are not living in any spiritual world, if they be somewhere
they would be summoned,
INSTEAD
they are going to be resurrected !!!!!!!!!
which means they are slepping
whenever you do see that anything speaks of talking to the dead
is a
SEDUCING SPIRIT or DEMONIC SPIRIT
do not fall for that
the mark of the beast will claim to open to a sixth sense
or third eye or the gate of the spirit world
and the world will love it
all that it opens is the gate for demonic spirits
but only mentioning the name of JEHOVA and JESUS and
the HOLY GHOST you will push them away and torment them
enjoy
eljofa
-------
Kings 8:38. Nothing so changes one's glory into shame as sin |
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James1-26
Bear Cub
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 603
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:54 am Post subject: |
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eljofa,
That's very interesting how you come up with Roman numerals to find Lucifer's name. I wonder how the Roman numerals were expressed in the original Greek text of Revelation. Was there some sort of mix of Latin and Greek in the writings of Revelation? 
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"Life is tough. Life is tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
"Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me:..." --the LORD |
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OldSchoolTheocrat
Sea Monkey
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 11:04 am Post subject: What does the Bible say about how many go to heaven? |
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At Luke 12:32, Jesus said: “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.” The reason that Jesus called them a "little flock" is expounded on in Rev. chapter 7 and chapter 14. At Revelation 14:1-3, we read: “I saw, and, look! the Lamb [Jesus Christ] standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. . . . And they are singing as if a new song . . . and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.”
So, are these verses symbolic and only referring to natural Jews?Rev. 7:4-8 says: “I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: . . . Judah . . . Reuben . . . Gad . . . Asher . . . Naphtali . . . Manasseh . . . Simeon . . . Levi . . . Issachar . . . Zebulun . . . Joseph . . . Benjamin.”
You see, these cannot be the tribes of natural Israel because there never was a tribe of Joseph, the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are not included in the list here, and the Levites were set aside for service in connection with the temple but were not reckoned as one of the 12 tribes, according to Numbers 1:4-16.
Plus, the Apostle Paul explained that the title of "Jew" at this point had a much more spiritual significance when he said at Rom. 2:28, 29: “He is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code.” Also at Gal. 3:26-29, he writes: “You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. . . . There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.”
Now, some will still say that this 144,000 number is strictly symbolic. But the fact that it is not symbolic and literal is indicated by the fact that, after mention of the definite number 144,000, Revelation 7:9 refers to “a great crowd, which no man was able to number.” If the number 144,000 were not literal it would lack meaning as a contrast to the “great crowd.” Viewing the number as literal agrees with Jesus’ statement at Matthew 22:14 regarding the Kingdom of the heavens: “There are many invited, but few chosen.”
OldSchoolTheocrat
Ordained Minister
London Bible College Graduate
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"Turn to the living God...who created the heavens and the earth and the sea and all the things in them." -Acts 14:15 |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6886
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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So who are they?
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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OldSchoolTheocrat
Sea Monkey
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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So who are whom?
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"Turn to the living God...who created the heavens and the earth and the sea and all the things in them." -Acts 14:15 |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6886
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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the 144,000 silly
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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