God never changing?

HeKkLeR · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:29 am Post subject: God never changing?

Ok... I've heard it said, I've seen it written, I spoken the words myself... but is God really never changing?

Man constantly states that God, in His perfection, does not make mistakes or change his mind. But is perfection truthfully the act of never erring, or never changing one's mind to find a better solution?

I do not think so. I think that true perfection is being able to make righteous and just decisions according to the situation. I do not believe that perfection is 'not making mistakes', but learning from the mistakes made, and applying the correct solution... time and time again.

There seems to be clear evidence of this in the Bible:
Gen 6:5-7 (NIV)

MoJo · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 7:37 am Post subject:

Only to say, I pretty much agree with this and your definition of perfection. Very Happy

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

Your both wrong. God does not make mistakes. Otherwise He is not God. He is perfect. Nothing ever surprises Him. He is outside of time. He has everything planned out. It is His universe.

Van · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 7:56 am Post subject:

I think the idea of an unchanging God comes from the fact that we can rely upon God, for God keeps his promises. If I promise I will protect you, but then decide you should not be protected, I am changing in a way that makes me unreliable. I am no longer your refuge, your rock.

Malachi 3:6 says I the Lord do not change; therefore you O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

What God determines to do, He does and nothing can alter it by external effort, for God is all powerful. But God can change his mind and add mercy to His justice, because of His internal attributes. God keeps his promises, He is logically consistent and He is our Creator. We should be holy for He is holy. Amen

Vs34, you are making assertions but not explaining the scriptures which show that God changes his mind. This is just another result of Calvinism making scripture of no effect by the traditions of men.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

There is no variation or shadow of turning with Him. I believe 1 John. If there is even the remotest possibility that God could make a mistake the whole Bible is up for question.

That's how crucial this is.

MoJo · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 8:42 am Post subject:

I should clarify that I don't think it's possible for Him to make a mistake, but possible for Him to change His mind and to be persuaded by the pleadings of man. The fact that God has emotions shows this. The definition of perfect has to be questioned when emotions such as jealousy and anger etc. are associated with God.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

You have to understand that the writers of Scripture used these terms to talk about God because that is the only way they can talk about Him. He is a Spirit Being. It does not imply imperfection at all.

Van · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:10 am Post subject:

I agree with Mojo! (And that is a rare occurrance!) Changing ones mind does not indicate the other path was wrong or a mistake. If God imposes justice, that is not a mistake. If God grants mercy, that is not a mistake. And if God considered imposing justice, but changes his mind and grants mercy, that is not a mistake. Remember God is just and God is merciful.
Both are attributes of God and neither is a mistake.

James 1:17 says, "Every good thing bestowed and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shifting of shadow." John put it this way in 1 John 1:5, "... God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all." So the gift of mercy rather than justice is light and not darkness. Amen.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

IF God changes His mind doesn't that imply that God did not make the best decision the first time around?

MoJo · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:21 am Post subject:

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

I think we should go to the Scriptures to find a definition of perfection by looking at God's character as revealed in Scripture.

Van · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:36 am Post subject:

Does God changing His mind imply that God did not make the best choice the first time around? No it doesn't. If God imposes justice, it is perfect justice. If God grants mercy, it is a perfect gift. God does what He wills, and because He is sovereign, whatever He chooses to do, it is righteous.
To say God cannot grant mercy, rather than justice because He is reacting to something He sees in humans is not scriptural. God will have mercy on whom He has mercy.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

So I ask you why does He change His mind?

HeKkLeR · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:51 am Post subject:

Van · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:55 am Post subject:

I am reminded of a workplace joke.

On the wall is a posting. It says: Rule #1, The Boss is always right.

If you seem to get the short end of the stick, remember rule #1.
If the Boss seems unfair, remember rule #1.
If the Boss fires you and then rehires you, remember rule #1 Laughing

The idea is that we do not set limits for God, God sets limits for us. If we say God cannot do this because that would mean our doctrine is wrong, we are carving a god of our own - which is a form of idolatry. God can do anything that is logically consistent with His attributes. If God chooses to allow man to make choices and thus create unforeseen events, God can do it. The concept that God is all knowing is based on the idea that God knows everything about the humans He relates to. He made us and knows what makes us tick. He understands our heart. We cannot fool God with lies or false humility or fake faith in Christ.