 |
Bible-Discussion.com
Private Bible Studies and Christian Fellowship Available - Ask Nobby
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2963
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
|
 Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:45 pm Post subject: God's Holy 7th Day Sabbath in Genesis |
 |
|
It is the cunning of Satan that the death of Christ brought in grace to take the place of the law (2 Corinthians 11:14,15).
The death of Jesus did not change or annul or lessen in the slightest degree the law of Ten Commandments (Matthew 5:17,18).
That precious grace offered to men through a Saviour's blood establishes the law of God (Romans 3:31).
Since the fall of man, God's moral government and His grace are inseparable. They go hand in hand through all dispensations. "Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other" (Psalm 85:10).
Jesus, our Substitute, consented to bear for man the penalty of the law transgressed. He clothed His divinity with humanity and thus became the Son of man, a Saviour and Redeemer.
The very fact of the death of God's dear Son to redeem man shows the immutability of the divine law.
How easily, from the transgressor's standpoint, could God have abolished His law, thus providing a way whereby men could be saved and Christ remain in heaven!
The doctrine which teaches freedom, through grace, to break the law is a fatal delusion.
Every transgressor of God's law is a sinner, and none can be sanctified while living in known sin (1 John 3:4 & Romans 7:7).
The condescension and agony of God's dear Son were not endured to purchase for man liberty to transgress the Father's law and yet sit down with Christ in His throne.
It was that through His merits and the exercise of repentance and faith the most guilty sinner might receive pardon and obtain strength to live a life of obedience.
The sinner is not saved in his sins, but from his sins.
What Sin Is
The soul must first be convicted of sin before the sinner will feel a desire to come to Christ. "Sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). "I had not known sin, but by the law" (Romans 7:7).
When the commandment came home to Saul's conscience, sin revived, and he died. He saw himself condemned by the law of God.
The sinner cannot be convinced of his guilt unless he understands what constitutes sin.
It is impossible for an individual to experience Bible sanctification while he holds that if he believes in Christ it is immaterial whether he obeys God's law or disobeys it.
Those who profess to keep the law of God and yet at heart are indulging in sin are condemned by the True Witness.
They claim to be rich in a knowledge of the truth; but they are not in harmony with its sacred principles.
The truth does not sanctify their lives.
God's Word declares that the professed commandment-keeper whose life contradicts his faith is blind, wretched, poor, and naked.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Last edited by Silver Surfer on Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6886
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:03 am Post subject: God's Holy 7th Day Sabbath in Genesis |
|
|
What is not to understand? No one denies (that I am aware of) that God established the 7th day as the 'original' sabbath (although sabbath is defined as 'a season or day of rest', we would have to recognize that the word sabbath is equatable to our english word 'holiday', and thus, there are many sabbaths, hence my use of 'original')
However, I am sure you have a deeper agenda here than merely asking if everyone recognizes that God established His 7th day as the first sabbath.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2963
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 10:41 pm Post subject: God's Holy 7th Day Sabbath in Genesis |
|
|
| RevJP wrote: | | However, I am sure you have a deeper agenda here than merely asking if everyone recognizes that God established His 7th day as the first sabbath. |
Yes, you are correct....and you already know what 'God's agenda' is, as we have discussed it many times in the past.
For now though, I want to get the idea of the 'Jewish Sabbath' out of people's minds.
The Sabbath is God's Holy day, not man's.
God has laid claim to it in scripture many times, by calling it, 'MY' Sabbaths.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2280
Location: Europe
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | The Sabbath is God's Holy day, not man's. |
True
Paul goes through this issue a few times as he speaks of man following the Law to obtain righteousness, and also of man's folly of following "weak and miserable principals" such as "observing special days and months and years" . (Gal 4:8-11)
The total arrogance of man is amazing. We would strip God of everything that God has claimed... exploit them to the ends of belittling God and elevating ourselves on high pedestals... in order to achieve our own self-righteousness.
| Quote: | | "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's" |
_________________
Peace
The HeKkLeR |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
revmattchoo.com
House Cat
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 165
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 12:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
silver surfer, a.k.a. present truth, i know that you will probably read this question yet never answer it because you have never answered people's questions in the past, but here i ask anyway:
Is the only thing you talk about in any of the topics, no matter whether it has something to do with abortion or music, is it always about the sabbath and how us sunday worshippers (who are called to worship God every day of the week) are goin to hell because we dont worship on the sabbath?
_________________
“Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.” - C.S. Lewis
“Has this world been so kind to you that you should leave with regret? There are better things ahead than any we leave behind.” - C.S. Lewis |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2963
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| revmattchoo.com wrote: | | silver surfer, a.k.a. present truth, i know that you will probably read this question yet never answer it because you have never answered people's questions in the past, but here i ask anyway: |
I have a hard time reaching everyone ...in all the forums I visit. I converse with dozens of people daily and it is difficult to keep up with all of that, and work 10 hours days, at my job.
And so, sometimes I miss out on answering people...Sorry.
| Quote: | | Is the only thing you talk about in any of the topics, no matter whether it has something to do with abortion or music, is it always about the sabbath and how us sunday worshippers (who are called to worship God every day of the week) are goin to hell because we dont worship on the sabbath? |
The Sabbath is the thing that Satan tries to bury more than the rest of the commandments...as it is the 'sign' of who God's true followers are (Ezekiel 20:12,20).
The Sabbath is the test of loyalty to God...and when the "Mark of the Beast" scenerio comes...you'll see this to be very, very, true !
People who attend worship services on Sunday ..do not understand Romans 6:16.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | People who attend worship services on Sunday ..do not understand Romans 6:16. |
And people who believe we are bound under the law, not under the grace of Jesus that he gave by giving his life, do not understand Romans 6:14..."for you are not under law but under grace."
_________________
The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike.
C. S. Lewis
Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2963
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| metothezero wrote: | | Quote: | | People who attend worship services on Sunday ..do not understand Romans 6:16. |
And people who believe we are bound under the law, not under the grace of Jesus that he gave by giving his life, do not understand Romans 6:14..."for you are not under law but under grace." |
The only people under the law are law breakers....they are under the condemnation of the law (Romans 3:19).
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
revmattchoo.com
House Cat
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 165
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | The only people under the law are law breakers....they are under the condemnation of the law (Romans 3:19). |
Romans 3:19 "Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may vecome accountable to God;"
are the gentiles under the Law? no, because they are not jews and do not have the Law passed down through their generations, only the jews do. God chose the Hebrew race so that He would be able to spread His message to the world through them. not the message of bondage to the Law, but the future promise of a Messiah who would deliver His people, Jesus Christ, Immanuel.
that is the verse that you want us to read, but notice the semi-colon which means it must be continued into the next verse, verse 20, which reads
"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin."
no flesh, that means everyone, will be justified in God's sight by doing the works of the Law. The Law shows that we are sinners and that is why we need the blood sacrifice so that we can be justified by the blood that is shed for our sins.
if we are to keep the Law, then why do we even need to bother having Jesus come into this world and become our ultimate sacrifice? if we are to hold to the Law, sacrificing some innocent animals upon the altar should take care of our sins.
also, doesn't the word sabbath actually mean rest?
i just took the time to go back and re-read the origional post on this discussion and thought i might point out that God did not command anyone to keep the sabbath until some 2300 years later, in the book of exodus (after genisis), whether it was holy or not.
a daily worshipper
revmattchoo
_________________
“Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.” - C.S. Lewis
“Has this world been so kind to you that you should leave with regret? There are better things ahead than any we leave behind.” - C.S. Lewis |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2963
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| revmattchoo.com wrote: |
| Quote: | verse 20, which reads
"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." |
Now, I want you to take this verse you just mentioned, and compare with Romans 2:13...."For not the hearers of the law are justified before God...BUT THE DOERS...of the law dshall be justified".
These scriptures 'do not' contradict each other.....the answer is to come up with an answer that makes both of these verses harmonize.
| Quote: | | if we are to keep the Law, then why do we even need to bother having Jesus come into this world and become our ultimate sacrifice? if we are to hold to the Law, sacrificing some innocent animals upon the altar should take care of our sins. |
so tell me ...where in all God's 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17)...do you find where people are to sacrifice anmals "
| Quote: | | also, doesn't the word sabbath actually mean rest? |
Hebrews 4:4-11 says yes....and it is unbelief that keeps a person from abtaining that rest of the 7th day Sabbath.
a daily worshipper
revmattchoo |
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Quote:
verse 20, which reads
"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin."
Now, I want you to take this verse you just mentioned, and compare with Romans 2:13...."For not the hearers of the law are justified before God...BUT THE DOERS...of the law dshall be justified".
These scriptures 'do not' contradict each other.....the answer is to come up with an answer that makes both of these verses harmonize. |
Now take that and compare it with, 3:28...Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
| Quote: | | so tell me ...where in all God's 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17)...do you find where people are to sacrifice anmals " |
Pt, you have yet to tell me where in the scriptures it says that Jesus is referring to the ten and ten alone.
_________________
The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike.
C. S. Lewis
Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2963
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| metothezero wrote: |
Pt, you have yet to tell me where in the scriptures it says that Jesus is referring to the ten and ten alone. |
Jesus said..."IF..you love me ..keep 'MY' commandments", (John 14:15).
Jesus Christ was in the wilderness with Moses (1 Corinthians 10:1-4).
Also, Christ was the creator of the earth, right ?(Colossians 1:12-17).
And what did the creator do on the 7th day ? (Genesis 2:2,3).
Can you figure it out ?
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Jesus said..."IF..you love me ..keep 'MY' commandments", (John 14:15). |
PT, we've been over this before, YES Jesus says keep MY Commandments, but as you yourself admitted, NOWHERE does it say that HIS Commandments are restricted to the ten and the ten only. Need I ask you the same question....Just in cases.....Give me Scripture stating that the commandments in which Jesus is speaking of is limited to the ten and ten alone, the ones in which he "WROTE WITH HIS VERY OWN FINGER ON STONE", Give me that scripture.....
_________________
The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike.
C. S. Lewis
Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2963
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
PT, we've been over this before, YES Jesus says keep MY Commandments, but as you yourself admitted, NOWHERE does it say that HIS Commandments are restricted to the ten and the ten only. Need I ask you the same question....Just in cases.....Give me Scripture stating that the commandments in which Jesus is speaking of is limited to the ten and ten alone, the ones in which he "WROTE WITH HIS VERY OWN FINGER ON STONE", Give me that scripture..... |
Ok, let's try something different.
Jesus said: 'Go and teach everthing whatsoever I have commanded you', (Matthew 28:19,20).
Will this help you ?
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No as it helps or hinders your argument in now way...Go to the Bible Debate topic, under Silver Surfer and the Sabbath...let's post there.
_________________
The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike.
C. S. Lewis
Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Make a Donation 
Usergroups 
Contact
Register
Submit Articles 
Log in to check your private messages 
