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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2711
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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 Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| HeKkLeR wrote: |
True
Paul goes through this issue a few times as he speaks of man following the Law to obtain righteousness, and also of man's folly of following "weak and miserable principals" such as "observing special days and months and years" . (Gal 4:8-11)
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You are quite right. people who do not bother to study out scripture, make no difference between God's 7th day Sabbath ...and the sabbaths contained in the law of Moses, such as the, 'Feast of Unleaven Bread' sabbath.....the 'Feasts of Trumpets' sabbath....the 'Passover' sabbath, etc. |
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revmattchoo.com
House Cat
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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ok, Jesus and his jewish followers no doubt knew what the law of God said. if the law were meant to be a means of justification, then what was to become of the other nations? was God only being partial to Abraham's seed and his seed only? could not God have called another person to begin His nation through? what was the purpose of God creating a nation and then setting up a law system for them? was it to be biased against all other people, or was God wanting to show the world who He is? God is perfect, true, loving, kind, knowing no sin, holy. God wanted His people to know what its like to be holy, but also to realize that they themselves could not be holy because of the law and thus realize their need for a savior, someone who could live up to the standards and be able to become the sacrifice for them. the animals that were sacrificed did not have human souls and therefore were unable to sin because they did not have the ability to know what sin was. there is no pre-determined law for animals and so they became the innocent, pure, clean sacrifice in our place.
also, if we get rid of all the laws but the ten commandments, which i do not see anything on there stating that we must set up a sacrificial system, then why do we need to have a blood atonement anyway? did God get rid of the sacrificial system because of Christ's sacrifice? or did He fulfill it and thus become the ONE and ONLY way that we can now get to Heaven?
speaking of sacrifices, what was the purpose? was it so we could go out and just kill an animal so we could say that we were cleansed for the moment? could i go out and find the animal and take it home and then knowingly sin and then take the animal to the priest so that God would forgive me? no, i believe not. then our hearts would not be repentant and we would still be in our sins.
are the ten commandments what determine whether we go to Heaven or hell? or is what we do with Christ that determines our destination?
daily worshipper
revmattchoo |
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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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PT, what you fail to understand is that whether or not written by God or not they are still commandments of God.
Consider Numbers twenty-eight..."Now the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, Command the children of Israel, and say to them, 'My offering, My food for My offering made by fire as sweet aroma to Me, you shall be careful to offer to Me at their appointed time.' (he continues to speak to Moses his commandments even untill verse seventeen....'And on the fifteenth day of this month is the feast; unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days.' This is a commandment given by God, thru Moses, granted he did not write it on stone, but it is still a commandment of God. If we are to follow the Commandments given by God why not this one? You have no scriptural evidence stating that only the commandments given by God, which he wrote on stone, are those in which we are bound and judged...NONE. |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2711
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| revmattchoo.com wrote: | | Quote: | | what was to become of the other nations? |
The syudy of scripture shows that the nations who knew not God and cotinued in sin were destroyed. | Quote: | | was God only being partial to Abraham's seed and his seed only? |
Aagin...whenever the nation of Isael fell into sin...they were punished. | Quote: | | what was the purpose of God creating a nation and then setting up a law system for them? |
The people of God were to show the surrounding nations the character of God, and his law.
| Quote: | | the animals that were sacrificed did not have human souls and therefore were unable to sin because they did not have the ability to know what sin was. there is no pre-determined law for animals and so they became the innocent, pure, clean sacrifice in our place. |
Exactly....the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). And..."without the shedding of blood..there is no remission for sin".
Sin always requires death !
That's why there is no such thing as "Once Saved ..Always saved".
If a Christian willfully sins....they put themselves back under the condemnation of the law...which is the, 'wages of sin is death'. Ezekiel 33:13,18 explain that very clearly.
And unless they repent of sins committed...they will become lost for all time !
| Quote: | | also, if we get rid of all the laws but the ten commandments, which i do not see anything on there stating that we must set up a sacrificial system, then why do we need to have a blood atonement anyway? |
you are correct...the Law of God (10 commandments) never says anything about the sacrificial system.
| Quote: | | did God get rid of the sacrificial system because of Christ's sacrifice? |
YES ! The Law of Moses which contained the sacrificial system was abolished (Ephesians 2:15).
| Quote: | | or did He fulfill it and thus become the ONE and ONLY way that we can now get to Heaven? |
Yes Christ fulfilled that sacrificial system by being...'the Lamd of God', which was slain from the foudation of the world.
As soon as sin entered our world Christ gave himself to be the Lamb...to pay for our sins, because sin requires a sacrifice...and Christ volunteered to die in our place ...for our sins !
| Quote: | | speaking of sacrifices, what was the purpose? was it so we could go out and just kill an animal so we could say that we were cleansed for the moment? |
As said earlier...there is no remission for sin, without the shedding of blood....a living creature had to die in our place. If man paid for his own sin...he would die, but then that was it.
| Quote: | | could i go out and find the animal and take it home and then knowingly sin and then take the animal to the priest so that God would forgive me? no, i believe not. then our hearts would not be repentant and we would still be in our sins. |
you seem to have a good understanding of how things work.
| Quote: | | are the ten commandments what determine whether we go to Heaven or hell? or is what we do with Christ that determines our destination? |
Actually it takes both, a combination of the two.
When people asked Jesus how they might gain eternal life...Jesus refered to the keeping of the commandments as a condition (Matthew 19:16,17......Mark 10:17-19).
But besides that....
Consider these verses:
"IF..YOU LOVE ME...KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS", (John 14:15).
Now, how does a person separate the commandments from loving Jesus Christ ?
Also, in Revelation 22:14...Blessed are they that do his commandments..that they have right to the Tree of Life..".
I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
daily worshipper
revmattchoo |
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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | That's why there is no such thing as "Once Saved ..Always saved".
If a Christian willfully sins....they put themselves back under the condemnation of the law...which is the, 'wages of sin is death'. Ezekiel 33:13,18 explain that very clearly.
And unless they repent of sins committed...they will become lost for all time ! |
"For it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of te HOLY SPIRIT, and have tasted the good word of GOD and the powers of the age to come, IF THEY FALL AWAY, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the SON OF GOD, and put HIM to an open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6
Need I go into a full explanation? PT, if we can indeed lose the salvational gift of grace which was afforded us by the shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ, then we have to forfeit it for all eternity, never to accept it again. You say unless they repent of sins committed...they will become lost for all time, THE BIBLE SAYS, that if they lose it, there is no more repentence, they ARE lost for all TIME. Like it or not, twist what you will, the BIBLE clearly says that if you lose your salvation, you CANNOT get it back....EVER. |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2711
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| metothezero wrote: | | the BIBLE clearly says that if you lose your salvation, you CANNOT get it back....EVER. |
Well, don't tell King David that...because he used the words: 'restore un to me the joy of thy salvation'. This prayer was about his repentance of the sin, (Psalms 51:1-12). |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5050
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:50 pm Post subject: ?? |
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When do you guys believe, ones name is entered into the book of life?
Nobby |
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revmattchoo.com
House Cat
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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ok, if we can lose our salvation, which comes through Jesus Christ, the very Son of God, then does that make the blood that He shed on the cross not strong enough to maintain our salvation? does God just say, "hey now, that guy down there just sinned, better take the salvation I provided for him away"? does that sound like something that God could do?
human viewpoint: we sin, so God takes away our salvation. we repent and hope that we regain our salvation through Christ. we live in constant fear that we may sin at the last minute before we die and live in eternal condemnation because of it.
daily worshipper
revmattchoo |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5050
Location: Missouri
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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Well, don't tell King David that...because he used the words: 'restore un to me the joy of thy salvation'. This prayer was about his repentance of the sin, (Psalms 51:1-12). |
PT, I've been over this before and will not repeat it again after this. If you cannot get it the first time, and continue to use this fallacious argument that supports your idea of loss of salvation in no way, then I can do nothing but let you continue believing based upon ignorance bias.
You are quoting verse twelve..."Restore unto me the JOY of Your salvation." NOWHERE does it say restore his salvation, only the joy of his salvation. As we find in Hebrews you CANNOT restore salvation if lost. David is not asking to regain his salvational gift, he is asking for the joy that he once owned, brought by salvation, to be restored to him.
More evidence that David did in fact NOT lose his salvation, is found in verse eleven. And again I've said this before, and you choose to ignore this obvious proof that he did not lose his salvation. Prove me wrong, and I'll shutup. Verse Eleven...."Do not cast me away from Your presence, and do not take Your Holy Spirit from me." If David had in fact lost his salvation when he sinned with Bathsheba, as you ascertain, then he would have automatically been cast from the presence of the LORD, and the LORD's Spirit would have been removed from him at the loss of his salvation. David therefore could not ask not to be removed from the presence of the LORD, or could he have asked for the Spirit not to be taken from him, it would already have been forfeited with the forfeitting of his salvation.
Give me another reference saying that you can in fact lose your salvation, as far as this one is concerned it is not proof, only a misunderstanding on your part. |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2711
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: ?? |
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| Nobby wrote: | When do you guys believe, ones name is entered into the book of life?
Nobby |
When a person accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. |
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Fake
Tiger
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 862
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: ?? |
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| Nobby wrote: | When do you guys believe, ones name is entered into the book of life?
Nobby |
Never 
Fake |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5050
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Are you sure, or are you just fakin' me like you did Thunder?
Shoot I thought you were a girl too! 
Now I find out your of the male gender! hmmmm! 
Fake you realy are a faker aren't you 
Nobby |
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Fake
Tiger
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 862
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Nobby wrote: |
Are you sure, or are you just fakin' me like you did Thunder?
Nobby |
When I answer never, I do it from my understanding of the scripture.
There is no literal book of live, it's just a figurative way of saying that God will have you "marked off" as gaining entrance to Heaven or not.
If we imagine this book as being literal, I doubt you'll be in it until you die, because you can't be judged by your actions, and faith until you have drawn your last breath, thus you cannot be certain you're in the book until death.
Fake |
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Fake
Tiger
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 862
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Curiousity killed the cat....
But why/what made you (and Thunder) belive I was a woman?
Fake |
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