300 B.G. (Before Grace)

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

This is just one of those questions that make us think. Imagine this scenario.

You were born a Jew in 300 B.C. You observe the law as best you can. Your heart is self-righteous. You may look at a woman to lust, but would never consider committing adultery. You always observe the Sabbath, but you don't see the point. You tithe and sacrifice, but your heart is never cheerful. As far as the written code, you are outwardly perfect and blameless. You circumcise your males and stone adulterers. You offer the most perfect lamb, but wish you could keep it for yourself.

You are proud to be God's chosen race, but you loath the pagan nations. You have never heard the teachings of Jesus, and frankly if you had, it would totally regenerate and transform your heart. You don't understand any covenant associated with faith and grace--only the written, tangible observable variety. WHat determines whether you are saved or not? Should you burn in torment? SHould you get a pass to heaven?

Nobby · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:20 am Post subject: (Before Grace)

God sees the inside! I don't think he would get a pass.
If you were God would you give him one? Wink

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

Nobby,

Under what covenant is he judged? If the Old covenant, then he is square with the law. And, I know people that have good hearts, who are not believers.

MoJo · Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:30 pm Post subject:

It is my understanding that people who died prior to Jesus will be resurrected in the second resurrection (Revelations) to be judged on their works. This will happen because the way was not opened till Jesus died. They also cannot be saved by grace as the transgression (of Adam) was not wiped out till Jesus.

People who die in Christ now are already resurrected and part of the first resurrection with Jesus.

I am just studying Revelations and am not sure at this moment what happens to the wicked who die after Jesus or the people who don't believe but perform good works. Perhaps they will also be resurrected in the second to be judged?

You have to keep in mind that after Jesus' thousand year reign, the devil is loosed again to go out and deceive the nations. If everyone in the first resurrection already has everlasting life, who are the nations being deceived? So there has to be other people and these other people are there before the second resurrection.

Hmmm....interesting my dear Watson. Exclamation

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

Mojo,

I try to avoid basing my understanding on the apocolyptic language of Revelation. These are not literal events--they are highly allegorical.

I also have to keep in mind no one--but no one-- could be saved by doing the law, or based in any way on their works

Rom 3:20 Therefore, no human being will be justified in God's sight by means of the works prescribed by the law, for through the law comes the full knowledge of sin. .

MoJo · Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 8:01 pm Post subject:

Sorry I haven't answered but I haven't been able to get online because of the blackout.

I know Revelations is a hard book to understand, but it is there for a reason and much of it becomes clearer with study. Yes, it is highly allegorical, but once you have the key, things become clearer. There are recurring themes throughout the bible and you can't understand Revelations without starting at Genesis and looking for the parallels.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6842 Location: USA

gs, the difficulty with your hypothetical scenario is that no one, other than Jesus, could keep the law. If one part was broken then the whole was broken. Given that, and that your 300 BG man was not Christ, I would have to say that he would be judged according the law and would fail.

Beyond that I don't know, I have not studied much on the old covenant possibilities of salvation.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

rev,

I agree, he could not be saved. But if we leave it right there, no one can be saved before Christ physically came. I think what we are seeing is there are all kinds of classes of people who have not had opportunity to accept the only means of salvation that ever was. Billions of people did not even live in a time when Christ could have been preached. And while people can be judged and rewarded based on works, no one can inherit the kingdom based on works.

MoJo · Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:45 pm Post subject:

homebild · Newbie Alert Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 2

"No one could be resurrected before Christ came! "

If that is so, how then do you explain this:

2 Kings 13:21
Once while some Israelites were burying a man, suddenly they saw a band of raiders; so they threw the man's body into Elisha's tomb. When the body touched Elisha's bones, the man came to life and stood up on his feet.