Jesus emptied himself of...

Mattathias · Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: Jesus emptied himself of...

JB.

You mentioned in another thread earlier this afternoon,

Ryck · Lion King Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094

Mattathias · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:21 am Post subject: Re: Jesus emptied himself of...

JB · Tiger Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 865

Matthias,

I have to go out on an electrical job this morning, I will check in about 7:00 this evening with my first post.

Thanks for the patience

JB

Mattathias · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:49 am Post subject:

doctrellor · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject:

I doubt he emptied himself of his will ...

"Abba, Father, all things are possible to thee; remove this cup from me; yet not what I will, but what thou wilt."

"Father, if thou art willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."
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Forgiveness aint easy, but it's a requirement!

Mattathias · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject:

doctrellor · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject:

JB · Tiger Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 865

Matthias,

Here is a start any ways. I Had a rough day.

2:6-7
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

As I begin my posts on this subject, I would like to make mention to the fact that I am not necessarily a trinitarian and wonder why this has been placed here. I guess I will soon find out.

The post that I am about to present will have to be in many parts since one post would take up a lot of space.

In Philippians 2:6 we see the word form. This word requires a very careful scrutiny or it will be mis defined. Form in this text has nothing to do with or is in any shape a reference to the shape of a physical object.

Vincent says this: We must dismiss from our minds the idea of shape. The word is used in its philosophical sense to denote that expression of being which carries in itself the distinctive nature and character of the being to whom it pertains and is therefore is permanently identified with that nature and character. As applied to God, the word is intended to describe the mode in which the essential being of God expresses itself. We have no word that can clearly convey this meaning nor is it possible for us to formulate the reality. Form inevitably carries with it to us the idea of shape. It is very conceivable that he essential personality of God may express itself in a mode apprehensible by the perception of pure spiritual intelligences; but the mode itself is neither apprehensible nor conceivable by human minds.

This mode of expression, this setting of divine essence is not identical with the essence itself, but is identified with it as its natural and appropriate expression, answering to it in every particular. Therefore it is a perfect expression of a perfect essence. It is not something that is imposed for without, but something that proceeds directly from with in. For example: I went to a tennis match yesterday. The winning players form was excellent. We mean by that is that the tennis players outward expression he gave of his inward ability to play tennis.
The expression in this case took the form of the rythmic, graceful, swift, and coordinated movement of his body and members.

Our Lord Jesus Christ was in the form of God. The word “God” is with out the definite article in this Greek text and therefore refers to divine essence. (There is No debate on that point) Therefore our Lords outward expression of His inmost being was as to His nature the expression of the divine essence of Deity. Since that outward expression which the word “form” speaks of, comes from and is truly representative of the inward being, it follows that our Lord as to His nature is the possessor of the divine essence of Deity, and being that it also necessarily follows that He is absolute Deity Himself,.

I will post the next section shortly.

JB

JB · Tiger Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 865

Matthias'

Here is the second half of the first post.

The time at which the Apostle says our Lord gave expression to His essential nature, that the Deity, was previous, to His coming to earth to become incarnate as the man, Jesus Christ. But Paul by the use of the Greek word translated “being” informs his Greek readers that our lords possession of the divine essence did not cease to be a fact when He came to earth to assume human form. The Greek word is not the simple verb of being, but a word that speaks of an antecedent condition protracted into the present. That is, our Lord gave expression to the essence of Deity which He possesses, not only before He became a man, but also after becoming a man, for he was doing so at the time this Philippian epistle was being written. To give expression to the essence of Deity implies the possession of Deity, for this expression, according to our word “form” comes from ones in most nature. This word alone is enough to refute the claim of modernism that our Lord emptied Himself of His Deity when He became a man.

This expression of essence of His Deity which our Lord gave in His pre-incarnate state, was given through a spiritual medium to spiritual intelligences, the angels. Human beings in the present state of being cannot receive such impressions, since they are not equipped with the spiritual sense of perception which the angel have. What Peter and James and John saw on the mount of transfiguration was an outward expression of the essence of Deity, but given through a medium by which the physical senses of the Disciples could receive the expression given. But when believers receive their bodies of Glory they will be equipped to receive the expression of Deity which the Angels received, and through a similar medium.

JB

Mattathias · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject:

Mattathias · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject:

JB · Tiger Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 865

Matthew ,

Here is the third portion of verse six.

The next idea is that of robbery.

Now at this time , in the eternity before the universe was created, Paul says that our Lord”Thought it not robbery to be equal with God”.

The word translated thought, refers to a judgment based on facts. (Greek construction) The Word “God” is again used with out the article. Had the article preceded it, the meaning would be”equal with God the Father”. The word God here refers to Deity, not seen in three persons of the God Head, but to Deity seen in its essence. Equality with God in this text doesn't mean equal to the other persons of a trinity. Nor does it refer to His equality with them in the possession of divine essence. Possession of the divine essence is not spoken of here, but the expression of the divine essence is referred to, although possession is implied by the expression. So what was it that the Lord laid aside or emptied Himself of?

To complete this idea we must consider carefully the word “robbery”. The Greek word here has two distinct meanings. 1.) A thing unlawfully seized and “ 2.) a treasure to be clutched and retained at hazards. When a Greek word has more than one meaning, the rule of interpretation is to take the one which agrees with the context in which it is found. The passage which we are studying is the illustrations of the virtues mentioned in verse 2-4, namely humility, self abnegation for the benefit of others. If our Lord did not consider it a thing to be unlawfully seized to be equal with God in the expression of divine essence, then He would be asserting His right to that expression. But to assert ones right to a thing does not partake of an attitude of humility and self abnegation. Therefore this meaning will not fit. If our Lord didn't consider His expression of divine essence such a treasure that it should be retained at all hazards, that means that He would be willing to waive His rights to that expression if the necessity arose. He emptied Himself.

JB

doctrellor · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject:

I need more info, these bits are just not enough guys ..

gimme more to chew on ...
_________________
Forgiveness aint easy, but it's a requirement!

Mattathias · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: