Questions for Trinitarians

PentecostalFire · Ferret Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 101 Location: Louisiana

1. Did Jesus Christ have two fathers? The Father is the Father of the Son (I John 1:3), yet the child born of Mary was conceived by the Holy Ghost (Matthew 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35). Which one is the true father?

2. How many Spirits are there? God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24), the Lord Jesus is a Spirit (II Corinthians 3:17), and the Holy Spirit is a Spirit by definition. Yet there is one Spirit (I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4).

3. If Father and Son are co-equal persons, why did Jesus pray to the Father? (Matthew 11:25). Can God pray to God?

4. Similarly, how can the Son not know as much as the Father? (Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32).

5. Similarly, how can the Son not have any power except what the Father gives Him? (John 5:19, 30; 6:38).

6. Similarly, what about other verses of Scripture indicating the inequality of the Son and the Father? (John 8:42; 14:28; I Corinthians 11:3).

7. Did "God the Son" die? The Bible says the Son died (Romans 5:10). If so, can God die? Can part of God die?

8. How can there be an eternal Son when the Bible speaks of the begotten Son, clearly indicating that the Son had a beginning? (John 3:16; Hebrews 1:5-6).

9. If the Son is eternal and existed at creation, who was His mother at that time? We know the Son was made of a woman (Galatians 4:4).

10. Did "God the Son" surrender His omnipresence while on earth? If so, how could he still be God?

11. If the Son is eternal and immutable (unchangeable), how can the reign of the Son have an ending? (I Corinthians 15:24-28).

12. If in answer to questions 3 through 11 we say only the human Son of God was limited in knowledge, was limited in power, and died, then how can we speak of "God the Son"? Are there two Sons?

13. Whom do we worship and to whom do we pray? Jesus said to worship the Father (John 4:21-24), yet Stephen prayed to Jesus (Acts 7:59-60).

14. Can there be more than three persons in the Godhead? Certainly the Old Testament does not teach three but emphasizes oneness. If the New Testament adds to the Old Testament message and teaches three persons, then what is to prevent subsequent revelations of additional persons? If we apply trinitarian logic to interpret some verses of Scripture, we could teach a fourth person (Isaiah 48:16; Colossians 1:3; 2:2; I Thessalonians 3:11; James 1:27). Likewise, we could interpret some verses of Scripture to mean six more persons (Revelation 3:1; 5:6).

15. Are there three Spirits in a Christian's heart? Father, Jesus, and the Spirit all dwell within a Christian (John 14:17, 23; Romans 8:9; Ephesians 3:14-17). Yet there is one Spirit (I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4).

16. There is only one throne in heaven (Revelation 4:2). Who sits upon it? We know Jesus does (Revelation 1:8,18, 4:8). Where do the Father and the Holy Spirit sit?

17. If Jesus is on the throne, how can He sit on the right hand of God? (Mark 16:19). Does He sit or stand on the right hand of God? (Acts 7:55). Or is He in the Father's bosom? (John 1:18).

18. Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus? Colossians 2:9 says the latter.

19. Given Matthew 28:19, why did the apostles consistently baptize both Jews and Gentiles using the name of Jesus, even to the extent of rebaptism? (Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5; 22:16; I Corinthians 1:13).

20. Who raised Jesus from the dead? Did the Father (Ephesians 1:20), or Jesus (John 2:19-21), or the Spirit? (Romans 8:11).

21. If Son and Holy Ghost are co-equal persons in the Godhead, why is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost unforgivable but blasphemy of the Son is not? (Luke 12:10).

22. If the Holy Ghost is a co-equal member of the trinity, why does the Bible always speak of Him being sent from the Father or from Jesus? (John 14:26; 15:26).

23. Does the Father know something that the Holy Spirit does not know? If so, how can they be co-equal? Only the Father knows the day and hour of the Second Coming of Christ (Mark 13:32).

24. Did the trinity make the Old and New covenants? We know the LORD (Jehovah) did (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:7-13). If Jehovah is a trinity then Father, Son, and Spirit all had to die to make the new covenant effective (Hebrews 9:16-17).

25. If the Spirit proceeds from the Father, is the Spirit also a son of the Father? If not, why not?

26. If the Spirit proceeds from the Son, is the Spirit the grandson of the Father? If not, why not?

doctrellor · Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject:

Cool .. I think I'll grab a lawn chair as I chow down on some popcorn and watch for any courageous trinitarians reply to those questions above...

#Popcornsmile

_________________
Forgiveness aint easy, but it's a requirement!

Ryck · Lion King Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094

james · Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:54 am Post subject:

Number 10 I found most interesting, for in John 3:13 Jesus refers to the Son of Man who IS in heaven. We know in Matt 16:13 Jesus says He is the Son of Man. Did this mean Christ was omnipresent? It seems to be what He is claiming.

Mattathias · Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject:

james · Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject:

I see your point. What caught my eye as unusual was the previous wording which all agreed on, I'll discuss it in SS' thread.

Mattathias · Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject:

Mattathias · Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject:

PentecostalFire · Ferret Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 101 Location: Louisiana

Mattathias · Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Questions for Trinitarians

doctrellor · Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject:

Glenn_NZ

Hi all,

This is my first newbie post. Very Happy

Just curious. What do people think that the trinity is a serious error in the church? What do you feel are the consequences of believing trinity doctrine?

doctrellor

TBax · King Kong Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 2072

Glenn_NZ,

T.L. Means (Thomas) · Kitten Joined: 06 Aug 2008 Posts: 140

1. Did Jesus Christ have two fathers? NO

The Father is the Father of the Son (I John 1:3), yet the child born of Mary was conceived by the Holy Ghost (Matthew 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35). Which one is the true father?

The Father is all powerful and Jesus is our mighty God. Therefore, not by power (God the Father), nor by might (Son of God) but by my Spirit (Holy) thus said the Lord. What you wrote as, conceived by the Holy Ghost is different than conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. The word conceived means to say begotten (For God=the Father so loved the world that He gave is only begotten Son. The works of the Holy Ghost in this conception was to give Mary the power (the Father’s seed) to conceive in her womb the Son of God (the Father). This is the checks and balances of God in the spiritual realms and what happened then was that God the Son became like man and fashioned as man independent of his deity (might) for the will of God.

2. How many Spirits are there? God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24), the Lord Jesus is a Spirit (II Corinthians 3:17), and the Holy Spirit is a Spirit by definition. Yet there is one Spirit (I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4).

One - For God is a Spirit and they who worship must worship him (Father) in Spirit (Holiness) and Truth (through Jesus as an extension of the Father’s word)

Checks and Balances

3. If Father and Son are co-equal persons, why did Jesus pray to the Father? (Matthew 11:25). Can God pray to God?

To honor and glorify him (John 17:1 Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee:

YES

4. Similarly, how can the Son not know as much as the Father? (Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32).

Jesus is an extension of God through his knowledge of the word. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God and the same was in the beginning with God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory as the begotten of the Father full of grace and truth.

5. Similarly, how can the Son not have any power except what the Father gives Him? (John 5:19, 30; 6:38).

True

6. Similarly, what about other verses of Scripture indicating the inequality of the Son and the Father? (John 8:42; 14:28; I Corinthians 11:3).

What about Phillipians 2: 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

7. Did "God the Son" die? The Bible says the Son died (Romans 5:10). If so, can God die? Can part of God die?

Jesus was made to go through crucifixion but the end result was the sacrifice of the Father’s doings. Abraham was tested when Issac was the subject of sacrifice, but the Father in Heaven had a sacrifice (Mary had a little Lamb) for the Father to kill.

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

8. How can there be an eternal Son when the Bible speaks of the begotten Son, clearly indicating that the Son had a beginning? (John 3:16; Hebrews 1:5-6).

TRUE

9. If the Son is eternal and existed at creation, who was His mother at that time? We know the Son was made of a woman (Galatians 4:4).

NONE, but the Father and Jesus are by supernatural means. BE THANKFUL!

10. Did "God the Son" surrender His omnipresence while on earth? If so, how could he still be God?

So that you could be saved, Jesus remained independent of his deity for God’s will.

11. If the Son is eternal and immutable (unchangeable), how can the reign of the Son have an ending? (I Corinthians 15:24-28).

No ending, Jesus resurrected by the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was not of this world and he was heir to the kingdom of God.

12. If in answer to questions 3 through 11 we say only the human Son of God was limited in knowledge, was limited in power, and died, then how can we speak of "God the Son"? Are there two Sons?

There is one Son of God in the natural and supernatural being that Jesus came to be, while he was on earth and as he was and is in Heaven.

13. Whom do we worship and to whom do we pray? Jesus said to worship the Father (John 4:21-24), yet Stephen prayed to Jesus (Acts 7:59-60).

In the Lord’s Prayer you will find the initial response is to God the Father and praying in Jesus’ name renders results. Whatsoever you ask in my name (according to God’s will) the Father will give it to you.

14. Can there be more than three persons in the Godhead? Certainly the Old Testament does not teach three but emphasizes oneness. If the New Testament adds to the Old Testament message and teaches three persons, then what is to prevent subsequent revelations of additional persons? If we apply trinitarian logic to interpret some verses of Scripture, we could teach a fourth person (Isaiah 48:16; Colossians 1:3; 2:2; I Thessalonians 3:11; James 1:27). Likewise, we could interpret some verses of Scripture to mean six more persons (Revelation 3:1; 5:6).

How many have been saved since Jesus resurrected???? In the body of Christ, I’m sure the unity in One is a great number of people. Don’t underestimate God’s ability for with God all things are possible…

(Christian Woman Wrote) The Trinity is simply a latin term which means 'three in the unity of one'. Anyone who believes in the Trinity believes in only ONE true God.

15. Are there three Spirits in a Christian's heart? Father, Jesus, and the Spirit all dwell within a Christian (John 14:17, 23; Romans 8:9; Ephesians 3:14-17). Yet there is one Spirit (I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4).

In my heart there is the Father’s power and the Son’s might and the compassion of God’s Holy Spirit. But the Comforter whom the Father will send in my name (Jesus), He will teach you all things whatsoever I have said unto thee. CHECKS AND BALANCES!

16. There is only one throne in heaven (Revelation 4:2). Who sits upon it? We know Jesus does (Revelation 1:8,18, 4:8). Where do the Father and the Holy Spirit sit?

17. If Jesus is on the throne, how can He sit on the right hand of God? (Mark 16:19). Does He sit or stand on the right hand of God? (Acts 7:55). Or is He in the Father's bosom? (John 1:18).

16 & 17 Answer: Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

18. Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus? Colossians 2:9 says the latter.

BOTH

19. Given Matthew 28:19, why did the apostles consistently baptize both Jews and Gentiles using the name of Jesus, even to the extent of rebaptism? (Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5; 22:16; I Corinthians 1:13).

That if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shall believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead then thou shall be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

20. Who raised Jesus from the dead? Did the Father (Ephesians 1:20), or Jesus (John 2:19-21), or the Spirit? (Romans 8:11).

The Father raised him from the dead by his power through the Holy Spirit and by His Son’s might in conquer ring death by death on the cross.

21. If Son and Holy Ghost are co-equal persons in the Godhead, why is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost unforgivable but blasphemy of the Son is not? (Luke 12:10).

Denial of God’s compassion (Holiness) is an unforgivable sin and Jesus became sin so that we may be forgiven of our sin.

22. If the Holy Ghost is a co-equal member of the trinity, why does the Bible always speak of Him being sent from the Father or from Jesus? (John 14:26; 15:26).

CHECKS AND BALANCES

23. Does the Father know something that the Holy Spirit does not know? If so, how can they be co-equal? Only the Father knows the day and hour of the Second Coming of Christ (Mark 13:32).

NOT TRUE-John was caught up in the Spirit when he saw the Revelations of God.

24. Did the trinity make the Old and New covenants? We know the LORD (Jehovah) did (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:7-13). If Jehovah is a trinity then Father, Son, and Spirit all had to die to make the new covenant effective (Hebrews 9:16-17).

Jesus is the author and finisher of our life. We begin life when we believe and receive this truth that we are to work out our salvation through fear and trembling of the Lord. There were many covenants within the Bible and the one that stands the test of time is the Faithful Covenant between God and man. Jesus was sent into the world to die for our sins and the greater sins of the heavens. Again, the Faithful Covenant between God and Abraham was succeeded through unto the birth and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The slain (at the hand of the Father) Lamb of God was Jesus Christ as I have shown in Revelation above.

25. If the Spirit proceeds from the Father, is the Spirit also a son of the Father? If not, why not?

26. If the Spirit proceeds from the Son, is the Spirit the grandson of the Father? If not, why not?

25 & 26 For God is a Spirit and they who worship must worship him (Father) in Spirit (Holiness) and Truth (Word)

NOTHING SATANIC ABOUT THIS AND BY THE WAY GOD IS MY JUDGE OF MY ETERNAL DESTINY?