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oceanfirehawk
Tadpole
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Posts: 21
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 Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: The Trinity Proved False by Scripture |
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James 1:13:
Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. (NASB)
Hebrews 2:18:
For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted. (NASB)
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. (NASB)
Note: Jesus Christ was in Heaven when this scripture was written.
Matthew 4:1:
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. (NASB)
Luke 4:1-2
Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness
for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And He ate nothing during those days, and when they had ended, He became hungry. (NASB)
If you believe in the trinity, please explain to me how it is possible for Jesus Christ to be the same as YHWH. Hebrews 4:15 clearly says "but One who has been tempted in all things". Compare that with "God cannot be tempted by evil". |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1991
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: The Trinity Proved False by Scripture |
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| oceanfirehawk wrote: | | If you believe in the trinity, please explain to me how it is possible for Jesus Christ to be the same as YHWH. Hebrews 4:15 clearly says "but One who has been tempted in all things". Compare that with "God cannot be tempted by evil". |
Obviously a tough challenge.
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"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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doctrellor
Big Lion
Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 989
Location: Twin Cities
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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we outta send this to PF and get a Oneness opinion on it ..
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Forgiveness aint easy, but it's a requirement! |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1991
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| doctrellor wrote: | | we outta send this to PF and get a Oneness opinion on it .. |
Sure. I'd like to hear his perspective.
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"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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T.L. Means (Thomas)
Kitten
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: Unitarian Mishap |
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So I looked over these scriptures and to my joy I found similarity of two scriptures submitted and found by testimony of the Holy Spirit who was ignorant of their meanings.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin (WHO IS WITHOUT SIN IN HEAVEN? God).
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
So true and this even proves that Jesus was without sin and could not be tempted by evil. |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1991
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Unitarian Mishap |
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| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | (WHO IS WITHOUT SIN IN HEAVEN? God). |
God (YHWH) and the sinless, resurrected human being, Messiah Jesus.
| Quote: | | So true and this even proves that Jesus was without sin and could not be tempted by evil. |
I'm curious about how you square this with the texts which state explicitly that Jesus was tempted.
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"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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T.L. Means (Thomas)
Kitten
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Unitarian Mishap |
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| Mattathias wrote: | | T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | (WHO IS WITHOUT SIN IN HEAVEN? God). |
I'm curious about how you square this with the texts which state explicitly that Jesus was tempted. |
I believe in Jesus' deity and with that he chose to remain independent of his deity (for our sake) and chose to go through temptation and sinned not. This is proof enough to me that Jesus is of the Lordship from heaven above. This is not to say he wasn't tempted by evil but to say he remained without sin. When man falls in to temptation they become a product of their submission but Jesus knew his position and so did the evil one (If thou be the Son of God) and Jesus' rebuked the devours of the evil one's test. Jesus went through it for our sake to give us hope out of the temptation of our lives. |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1991
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Unitarian Mishap |
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| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | I believe in Jesus' deity and with that he chose to remain independent of his deity (for our sake) and chose to go through temptation and sinned not. |
When Jesus was independent of his deity, 2/3 of the original founding members of the Trinity (I'm intentionally leaving out all of the believers, who you say were incorporated into the Godhead, just for the sake of simplification) maintained their deity?
So in other words, two persons of the Godhead maintained their deity and one person of the Godhead, for a while, did not?
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"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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T.L. Means (Thomas)
Kitten
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: true |
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| Yes |
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T.L. Means (Thomas)
Kitten
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: truth |
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| But, during his temptation and independence of the deity the members did not exsist yet because Jesus had not be crusified yet. |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1991
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: truth |
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| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | But, during his temptation and independence of the deity the members did not exsist yet because Jesus had not be crusified yet. |
I'm confused, Thomas. Are you saying that the other two members of the Trinity did not exist until Jesus was crucified?
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"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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T.L. Means (Thomas)
Kitten
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: Membership |
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| The body of Christ contains the members and this didn't occur until after the crusifixion. |
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Nickman
Fierce Poodle
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 275
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Membership |
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| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | The body of Christ contains the members and this didn't occur until after the crusifixion. |
Can you not see how your theology goes around an around to find proof for somethig that is not in the bible?
Jesus was a human 100%
Hebrews 2:11Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers. 12He says,
"I will declare your name to my brothers;
16For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. 17For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for[f]the sins of the people.
Jesus was a human being. He had to be to become a High priest. You dont study the OT much do you? What is a requirement of a High Priest? How can a high priest help?
18Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
Hebrews 5:1Every high priest is selected from among men and is appointed to represent them in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness. 3This is why he has to offer sacrifices for his own sins, as well as for the sins of the people.
4No one takes this honor upon himself; he must be called by God, just as Aaron was. 5So Christ also did not take upon himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,
"You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.[a]"[b] 6And he says in another place,
"You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek."[c]
7During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
Jesus was tempted by sexual sin, to improperly using God's holy spirit to make food for himself, by peers, by money, by all the things that man is tempted by and he could have said "I want sin instead of righteousness" . God on the other hand cannot be tempted at all by sin. Under no circumstances. He is the only one that is Good as Jesus said. He said "why call me good for there is one that is Good and that is God". Jesus knew that he was inherently evil at the core and had the ability to sin at will and therefore could not be called Good. Only God (the father and God of Jesus Christ) is untouchable by sin in any way.
v/r
Nick
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1991
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:44 am Post subject: Re: Membership |
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| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | The body of Christ contains the members and this didn't occur until after the crusifixion. |
You told me in another thread that you don't think that you are YHWH. But you also told me that you think that you, and all believers, are members of the Godhead. Even after sleeping on it, that's a concept that I'm having difficulty getting my hands around.
How can a person be a member of the Godhead and not be God? Do you think that you, and all believers, are God?
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"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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T.L. Means (Thomas)
Kitten
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Membership |
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| Nickman wrote: | God on the other hand cannot be tempted at all by sin. Under no circumstances. He is the only one that is Good as Jesus said. He said "why call me good for there is one that is Good and that is God". Jesus knew that he was inherently evil at the core and had the ability to sin at will and therefore could not be called Good. Only God (the father and God of Jesus Christ) is untouchable by sin in any way.
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Not only is this a strech but false doctrine. Even God calls the Son God.
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
It was by the Son the worlds came to be.
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged-atoned our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
b]At One[/b]
εἰς εἰρήνην, eis eirḗnēn, “at one,” “at peace”): “Set them at one again” (Act_7:26), the reconciliation of persons at variance. From this adverb we have the words “atone” and “atonement.”
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Angels are messengers and a child of the most high God is a flame of fire minister of reconciliation.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he (God) saith, Thy throne, O God (Son), is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God (Son), even thy God (Father), hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord (Jesus), in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
In the beginning God created the heaven and earth: Believe it or not there is legitimate concern for how you believe.
Every knee shall bow and tongue shall confess Jesus as Lord. I'm thankful to God that I can proclaim that now then have to be made to bow and confess later. |
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