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fallen4shell
Ferret
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 123
Location: Arkansas
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 Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: What does it mean to "repent of sin" |
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Repentence, as I understand it, means to turn around. In other words, you turn away from a direction which you were previously headed and you turn towards a new direction and begin moving that way.
The term "sin" implies an imperfection or a falling short (see Romans 3:23) of something and most literally is translated as "to miss the mark."
It follows, then, that when you put the two terms together, "repenting of sin" simply means to turn from the way or path that I am headed that is not going to lead me to "the mark" and to begin walking in the direction that God is leading me.
I guess that makes sense....sometimes it just helps me to collect my thoughts if I write it all down.
Anyone have anything to add or perhaps another perspective? |
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JB
Tiger
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 865
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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fallen4shell,
I am not sure that I completely agree with you assertion that repentance is turning from sin.
John the Baptist came preaching repent and believe the Gospel. In this application to repent would be to change your mind about God.
In the Garden, Adam and Eve fell. Many say that they fell because they sinned. Actually, they fell because they took their eyes off of God. To repent is to turn to God, not turn from sin.
Our Christian lives are victorious when we walk in His Presence. When we choose to live for self our eyes are upon the things of this world. This is when we fall.
If repent means to turn from sin then God is a sinner.
Genesis 6:6
And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Exodus 32:14
And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Deuteronomy 32:36
For the Lord shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants.
1 Samuel 15:11
It repenteth me [God] that I have set up Saul to be king.
1 Samuel 15:35
The Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
2 Samuel 24:16
The Lord repented of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, it is enough: stay now thine hand.
God Himself repented in the Old Testament. Did He sin? I doubt it. This is clearly another one of those catholic influences that carried over to the Protestant movement.
JB |
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fallen4shell
Ferret
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 123
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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I sincerely apologize for my lack of communication. I in no way meant to assert that "repentence" means to turn from sin. Actually, my understanding of the word is that it simpy means to turn around. Sin itself is not inherent in the definition of the word. Whether you want to look at it as turning away from something (such as sin) or turning towards something (such as God), the "turning" part is the constant, the "something" is not. Does that make any more sense?
I think that perhaps we are both on the same page, it's just that the language in which our pages are written is different. |
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JB
Tiger
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 865
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: |
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fallen4shell,
Thanks for the post.
JB |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: Re: What does it mean to "repent of sin" |
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| fallen4shell wrote: | Repentence, as I understand it, means to turn around. In other words, you turn away from a direction which you were previously headed and you turn towards a new direction and begin moving that way.
The term "sin" implies an imperfection or a falling short (see Romans 3:23) of something and most literally is translated as "to miss the mark."
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AH....but what is the mark....that we have missed ?
THAT is the QUESTION !
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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doctrellor
Big Lion
Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 989
Location: Twin Cities
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: What does it mean to "repent of sin" |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | fallen4shell wrote: | Repentence, as I understand it, means to turn around. In other words, you turn away from a direction which you were previously headed and you turn towards a new direction and begin moving that way.
The term "sin" implies an imperfection or a falling short (see Romans 3:23) of something and most literally is translated as "to miss the mark."
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AH....but what is the mark....that we have missed ?
THAT is the QUESTION ! |
Go and sin NO MORE
the words of Jesus himself ...
_________________
Forgiveness aint easy, but it's a requirement! |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: What does it mean to "repent of sin" |
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| doctrellor wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | | fallen4shell wrote: | Repentence, as I understand it, means to turn around. In other words, you turn away from a direction which you were previously headed and you turn towards a new direction and begin moving that way.
The term "sin" implies an imperfection or a falling short (see Romans 3:23) of something and most literally is translated as "to miss the mark."
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AH....but what is the mark....that we have missed ?
THAT is the QUESTION ! |
Go and sin NO MORE
the words of Jesus himself ... |
Yes, they are.
BUT...did you know the not observing the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath, is sinning against God ?
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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fallen4shell
Ferret
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 123
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: What does it mean to "repent of sin" |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | AH....but what is the mark....that we have missed ?
THAT is the QUESTION ! |
I agree, and a very good question at that. If we don't know what "mark" we are striving to hit then we are certainly doomed to miss it. Unfortunately, I feel that many proclaiming "christians" not only are missing the mark, but are not even sure what the mark is that they are supposed to be aiming for.
I will say that I don't agree that the "mark" is to "sin no more"...or at least not in the terms that I think you are defining "sin".
Just to be perfectly clear, though, perhaps you could be so kind as to state your definition of what "sin" is -- just so there are no misunderstandings in the discussion that (i'm fairly certain) is to follow. |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: What does it mean to "repent of sin" |
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| fallen4shell wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | AH....but what is the mark....that we have missed ?
THAT is the QUESTION ! |
I agree, and a very good question at that. If we don't know what "mark" we are striving to hit then we are certainly doomed to miss it. Unfortunately, I feel that many proclaiming "christians" not only are missing the mark, but are not even sure what the mark is that they are supposed to be aiming for. |
I agree that that is the case.
| Quote: |
I will say that I don't agree that the "mark" is to "sin no more"...or at least not in the terms that I think you are defining "sin". |
God leaves no one in doubt as to what HE defines as sin.
The disobedience of even one of God's commandments, constitutes sin.
| Quote: |
Just to be perfectly clear, though, perhaps you could be so kind as to state your definition of what "sin" is -- just so there are no misunderstandings in the discussion that (i'm fairly certain) is to follow. |
My definition of what sin is, is irrelevant.
God's definition is all that matters !
#1.) 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Question: What Law is being refered to here ?
#2.) Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Since the 10th commandment was mentioned, we can assume that Paul was refering to the BIG 10, as found in Exodus 20:3-17.
#3.) James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Again, the BIG 10 are being refered to here....BUT, as being instrumental in the Day of God's Judgment.
#4.) Eccl. 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.
12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.
Judgment Day.......Commandment-keeping.....
AND... the promise to those who keep God's commandments......
Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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fallen4shell
Ferret
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 123
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: |
God leaves no one in doubt as to what HE defines as sin. |
If this statement were true then EVERYONE would undoubtedly agree with your interpretation of scripture. Since I, for one, do not agree with your interpretation of scripture then I must by all laws of reason conclude that the statement is false.
And, just as a side note, I have always found the argument that "you're not disagreeing with ME you're disagreeing with GOD" to be as ridiculous as it is pointless. What proclaiming Christian, in their right mind, would persist to argue a point that they thought actually WAS in disagreement with God? By the same token, claiming that God is on "your side" adds no more validity to your argument than it did to Adolf Hitler's.
Let's just call a spade a spade here: you believe that YOUR opinion and interpretation of scripture is the correct one and I believe that MINE is....why else would be be debating about it?
| fallen4shell wrote: |
Just to be perfectly clear...perhaps you could be so kind as to state your definition of what "sin"... |
| Silver Surfer wrote: | | My definition of what sin is, is irrelevant. God's definition is all that matters ! |
Yes, I agree. Perhaps my wording was a little misleading. Let me rephrase so as to clear up confusion: perhaps you could be so kind as to state what you understand God's definition of "sin" to be. But, as I see [please correct me if I'm wrong] you have already done that I will simply quote your answer to the question that I MEANT to ask and then we can move on.
| Silver Surfer wrote: | | The disobedience of even one of God's commandments, constitutes sin. |
This point, I would have to contend, is open for interpretation. To say that something "constitutes sin" is not the same as defining sin. While I do agree, to a certain point, that disobedience of God's commands does constitute sin, I do not feel that it can be considered the definition of sin. As with many other logical arguments, the equals sign does not work both ways. Just because
disobedience of law = sin
does not mean that
sin = disobedience of law
any more than saying that
heart = organ
is the same as saying that
organ = heart
Do you see what I'm saying? Just because the heart is an organ does not mean that all organs are a heart. In fact, just as I am sure you are aware, there are MANY different things that could rightly be defined as an organ, none of which could rightly define the word "organ" itself. Similarly, just because disobedience to God's command is sin does not mean that all sin is synonymous with disobedience to God's command. |
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james
Tiger
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 855
Location: Portland, Ore
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Good point. |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| fallen4shell wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: |
God leaves no one in doubt as to what HE defines as sin. |
If this statement were true then EVERYONE would undoubtedly agree with your interpretation of scripture. |
God has stated the definition of what sin is.
Take it or leave it.
The Gospel message from Genesis to Revelation has ALWAYS been about getting sin out of the personal life of each and every person, who wishes to enter into eternal life.
Eccl. 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.
12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.
Jesus Christ is the ONLY way that can be a reality.....
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
OK, now the question is......what does the Bible define as 'Righteousness' ?
Psalms 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments [are] righteousness.
119:173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.
119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law [is] my delight.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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fallen4shell
Ferret
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 123
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | God leaves no one in doubt as to what HE defines as sin. |
| fallen4shell wrote: | | If this statement were true then EVERYONE would undoubtedly agree with your interpretation of scripture. |
| Silver Surfer wrote: | God has stated the definition of what sin is.
Take it or leave it. |
Again, just to be clear: YOU have stated (however closed-mindedly) what YOU believe that God's definition of sin is. I realize that me rephrasing this in such a way is probably not really going to accomplish anything, but it just annoys me that you take YOUR words and try to stamp them with the absolute truth according to God stamp. Have you ever for one second entertained the idea that you could perhaps be WRONG about ANYTHING? If God himself were to strike you blind on the road to damascus and tell you that you are wrong I think that you would not even believe HIM. I can picture you citing verse after verse after verse to GOD HIMSELF trying to prove to him that HE doesn't know what he's talking about.
There were a few other things (regarding the scriptures you mentioned) that I was going to comment on, but quite frankly I feel that anything I say to you seems to hit a brick wall somewhere in between your ears. Until you stop trying to convince everyone else how RIGHT you are and start listening to what others have to say I don't think you being here is going to produce any beneficial fruit for ANYONE.
I think that I, along with I dare say MOST of the other people on this forum, are here because we seek truth. Socrates had the idea when he said that "an unexamined life is not worth living." Unless you are willing to question yourself and your own beliefs then any search for truth, or claim thereof, is utterly meaningless.
phew...is it just me or am I starting to sound like I'm in a bad mood tonight? |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| fallen4shell wrote: |
Again, just to be clear: YOU have stated (however closed-mindedly) what YOU believe that God's definition of sin is. |
There is no other way to look at it.
If you look at a bird...is it anything but a bird ?
A bird is a bird...no matter what else you want it to be.
God has given the definition of what sin is....PERIOD !
It has nothing to do with being closed-minded, or open-minded......the definition remains the same.
| Quote: |
I realize that me rephrasing this in such a way is probably not really going to accomplish anything, but it just annoys me that you take YOUR words and try to stamp them with the absolute truth according to God stamp. |
Are these my words or God's.....
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
| Quote: |
Have you ever for one second entertained the idea that you could perhaps be WRONG about ANYTHING? |
YES, I'm wrong more times than you can count.
BUT, God is NOT wrong.
And that is why I don't rely upon myself.
| Quote: |
There were a few other things (regarding the scriptures you mentioned) that I was going to comment on, but quite frankly I feel that anything I say to you seems to hit a brick wall somewhere in between your ears. Until you stop trying to convince everyone else how RIGHT you are and start listening to what others have to say I don't think you being here is going to produce any beneficial fruit for ANYONE. |
I just sick and tired of people always trying to undermine what God says in the Bible.... OK ?
| Quote: |
I think that I, along with I dare say MOST of the other people on this forum, are here because we seek truth. Socrates had the idea when he said that "an unexamined life is not worth living." Unless you are willing to question yourself and your own beliefs then any search for truth, or claim thereof, is utterly meaningless.
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My job is to present Bible Scriptures, to people so that they can pass God's Judgment Day.
If they choose to ignore or reject them (hopefully except them into their own belief system)....that is their right.
God will not force anyone to be saved.
And, intructions on the Plan of Salvation ONLY comes from the Bible.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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fallen4shell
Ferret
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 123
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | If you look at a bird...is it anything but a bird ? |
So my suspiscions are indeed correct that your density is, in fact, not limited to your theological viewpoints.
I saw a documentary once about a tribe living in the Kalahari Desert, totally removed from civilization. One day, an airplane flew overhead and all the tribe's people, having no idea what an airplane was or even that such a thing existed, looked up into the sky in astonishment of this large "noisy bird" that didn't flap it's wings when it flew.
So the answer to your question -- and consequently my question to your answer -- is relative to intent.
If I were to take the question at face value then the answer would be "no": a bird will be a bird whether you look at it or do not look at it. Me looking at the bird in no way changes it's identity.
However, in order to use the question to accurately illustrate what you are intending (that being support your INTERPRETATION of what the definition of sin is), the wording of the question would have to be changed.
My question to you would be: If you look at an airplane and think that it is a bird, is it anything other than an airplane?
If your mind is not open to the existence of airplanes, then all you will EVER see is a big, noisy bird.
| Silver Surfer wrote: | Are these my words or God's.....
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. |
The words are [presumably] from God, it is our differing interpretations of them that presents the problem. You say that the elephant is like the trunk of a tree, I say the elephant is like a rope; perhaps the reality of the situation is that we are both blind men feeling different parts of the WHOLE elephant -- you the towering leg and me the whispy tail -- and presuming that we have everything figured out.
| fallen4shell wrote: |
Have you ever for one second entertained the idea that you could perhaps be WRONG about ANYTHING? |
| SilverSurfer wrote: | | YES, I'm wrong more times than you can count. |
Though I have not taken the time to try, I willingly concede to you on this point.
| Silver Surfer wrote: | | My job is to present Bible Scriptures, to people so that they can pass God's Judgment Day. |
Why do you think this is your "job"? |
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