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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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 Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| cballard wrote: | | Quote: | | This "prattle" means that what you selected for your "proofs" |
Hold on right there  I'm not offering "proofs". I'm just trying to show how trintarians understand the Godhead. To believe it takes faith. There's no way to prove it. I don't know how Jesus and the Holy Spirit fit into your God, but you can't prove there is even a God. |
You started it saying "some physical examples of how trinitaritans understand God are ...". But now you say it was all a bluff??? That's sad besides an insult to one's intelligence. What was your post all about anyway if it was not to offer any constructive insight?
Like I said in my last post, you guys haven't offered any Scriptures to support your claim that God is composed of Three Of Them. I, on the other hand, gave a few Scriptures to support my claim that God is One Himself. And that, thankfully, is not a bluff nor some warm fuzzy feeling but solid Scriptural evidence.
Have a nice day! |
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Paul2
Ferret
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 105
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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habeshaw,
| You wrote: | With the name of God, His Son and the Holy Sprit, One God, Amen.
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You have used two different definitions of the word "God":
In instance 1: The word "God" means the Father of Jesus Christ.
In instance 2: The word "God" means the "Holy Trinity".
| You wrote: | | Finally, Jesus Christ is God. Oh Christ, we love you. |
It seems you are using yet another definition of the word "God". I doubt you mean that Jesus is His own Father or that Jesus is the "Holy Trinity".
Your argument is fallacious, because you are using the word "God" in an ambiguous manner.
Paul |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| Paul2 wrote: | habeshaw,
| You wrote: | With the name of God, His Son and the Holy Sprit, One God, Amen.
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You have used two different definitions of the word "God":
In instance 1: The word "God" means the Father of Jesus Christ.
In instance 2: The word "God" means the "Holy Trinity".
| You wrote: | | Finally, Jesus Christ is God. Oh Christ, we love you. |
It seems you are using yet another definition of the word "God". I doubt you mean that Jesus is His own Father or that Jesus is the "Holy Trinity".
Your argument is fallacious, because you are using the word "God" in an ambiguous manner.
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Hi Paul2
And there is yet another ambiguous dimension of what is he trying to prove which I pointed out to habeshaw in a few occasions.
Who is "God" to him?
1) That God is the Trinity composed of Three Persons where Jesus is one of the three?
2) That God is Jesus where Jesus holds 100% of the God seat? In other words, a monotheism based strictly on the person of Jesus Christ.
He constantly blends the two. When he tries to "prove" one he means the other and vice versa. Often in the same sentense.  |
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james
Tiger
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 855
Location: Portland, Ore
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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habeshaw wrote,
| Quote: | | hi All, I think james has asked a good question, but the question seems that he/James want to lough rather than to learn |
What ???????? Not another person who likes to falsely jump to conclusion and claims to be christian. So many slanderers and so little time............
| Quote: | Using the Father, God thinks,
Using the Son, God acts,talks,
using the Holy Sprit, God has life and give life. |
Did not God the Father "act" in the OT multiple times????
And in John 3:36 - He that believes on the Son has everlasting life, not Holy Spirit. The Son said I am the life, not the Holy Spirit is.
And what about - In HIM dwelleth ALL the fullness of the GODHEAD bodily. All of God in one person Christ, not three.
Feel free to tell me more about myself, you seem to know me so well |
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Pete
Big Lion
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 992
Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| If you want to prove the Trinity, then what you have to do is prove it with chapter and verse. So far, I've seen nothing. |
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doctrellor
Big Lion
Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 989
Location: Twin Cities
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Pete wrote: | | If you want to prove the Trinity, then what you have to do is prove it with chapter and verse. So far, I've seen nothing. |
Correct, since there are so many loopholes to attack, that the trinitarians have no recource but to stay out of this sub-forum, since they know we non-trinitarians have them beat
_________________
Forgiveness aint easy, but it's a requirement! |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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| james wrote: | | As I understand trinitarians believe One God is three persons. Since man was created in the IMAGE OF GOD, then every man would have three persons as part of his makeup. So who or what are our other persons? |
I look at the subject this way:
Family Name: GOD
Ist person in that family is: FATHER
2nd person in that family: SON
3rd family member: HOLY SPIRIT
They are ALL under the family name, GOD.
Each has a distinct personality, performing a different task, in the Salvation of Mankind.
BUT ALL....have the same mindset, and goals.
The GodHead
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1991
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Family Name: GOD |
There is no scripture that I'm aware of that identifies God as a family composed of three persons. Scripture tells us that God is one person (the Father). Scripture also tells us that He has a personal name -YHWH.
_________________
"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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| Mattathias wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | | Family Name: GOD |
There is no scripture that I'm aware of that identifies God as a family composed of three persons. Scripture tells us that God is one person (the Father). Scripture also tells us that He has a personal name -YHWH. |
Yes, But in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John....Jesus speaks both of the Father, and of the Holy Spirit, as distinct individuals.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1991
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Jesus speaks both of the Father, and of the Holy Spirit, as distinct individuals. |
Jesus, consistent with his Jewish unitary monotheistic heritage, identifies the Father as the only person who is truly God.
_________________
"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | james wrote: | | As I understand trinitarians believe One God is three persons. Since man was created in the IMAGE OF GOD, then every man would have three persons as part of his makeup. So who or what are our other persons? |
I look at the subject this way:
Family Name: GOD
Ist person in that family is: FATHER
2nd person in that family: SON
3rd family member: HOLY SPIRIT
They are ALL under the family name, GOD.
Each has a distinct personality, performing a different task, in the Salvation of Mankind.
BUT ALL....have the same mindset, and goals.
The GodHead |
I agree with Mattathias. There is nothing in the Jewish mindset nor in the New Testament writings that alters the Old Testament writings that God was anything other than He Himself.
I'm not aware of a Scripture that says that "God" is a family of three. |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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Maybe I should repeat this......Yes, But in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John....Jesus speaks both of the Father, and of the Holy Spirit, as distinct individuals.
All I know is that Jesus identified Himself to the religious leaders as being God, Himself, while He was upon the earth.
Yet again, Jesus made reference to the Father who was still in heaven......and, the Holy Spirit, yet to come.
It is all there in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1991
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Maybe I should repeat this......Yes, But in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John....Jesus speaks both of the Father, and of the Holy Spirit, as distinct individuals. |
That brings us back to Jesus, the Jewish unitary monotheist.
Jesus' God is YHWH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jesus' God is his Father. Jesus' God and Father is also the God and Father of Jesus' disciples.
Do you disagree with this proposition?
_________________
"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1991
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | All I know is that Jesus identified Himself to the religious leaders as being God, Himself, while He was upon the earth. |
Jesus identified himself as the Son of God. He believed that the Father alone was truly God.
_________________
"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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james
Tiger
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 855
Location: Portland, Ore
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | james wrote: | | As I understand trinitarians believe One God is three persons. Since man was created in the IMAGE OF GOD, then every man would have three persons as part of his makeup. So who or what are our other persons? |
I look at the subject this way:
Family Name: GOD
Ist person in that family is: FATHER
2nd person in that family: SON
3rd family member: HOLY SPIRIT
They are ALL under the family name, GOD.
Each has a distinct personality, performing a different task, in the Salvation of Mankind.
BUT ALL....have the same mindset, and goals.
The GodHead |
And yet scripture tells us - In HIM (singular) Dwelleth ALL the fulness of the GODHEAD BODILY (singular). So how could each have a distinctive personality, performing different tasks, in one body, the body of Jesus Christ? One might as well believe Christ was suffering from MPD(multiple personality disorder) having more than one personality dwelling in His body. |
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