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james Tiger

Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 855 Location: Portland, Ore
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: Three persons ?? |
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| As I understand trinitarians believe One God is three persons. Since man was created in the IMAGE OF GOD, then every man would have three persons as part of his makeup. So who or what are our other persons? |
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Ryck Lion King

Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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| james wrote: | | As I understand trinitarians believe One God is three persons. Since man was created in the IMAGE OF GOD, then every man would have three persons as part of his makeup. So who or what are our other persons? |
Interesting! At least some sort of clue that we have "three" of something.
One head, one nose, one mouth, one belly-button. Two hands, two arms, two ears, two eyes, two feet, two legs, two lungs, two kidneys.
I don't see any examples in the human body that we have three of. |
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Mattathias King of the Jungle

Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 1991 Location: Atlanta
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: |
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THE TRINITY OF MAN
Link _________________ "All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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Mattathias King of the Jungle

Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 1991 Location: Atlanta
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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| james wrote: | | As I understand trinitarians believe One God is three persons. Since man was created in the IMAGE OF GOD, then every man would have three persons as part of his makeup. So who or what are our other persons? |
Trinitarians don't understand it to mean that a human being is composed of multiple persons. I think the following statement is a fair representation of their view on this point.
| Quote: | | Adam was made in the image of God. He was not triplets but he had a trinity nature. He was alone in the same sense that God was alone. Yet, he was made of body (ability to manipulate material things), soul (life) and spirit or the "mental disposition" or the proper intellect to direct the God-created body into which He "breathed the breath of life." |
Link _________________ "All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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Ryck Lion King

Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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| Mattathias wrote: | | james wrote: | | As I understand trinitarians believe One God is three persons. Since man was created in the IMAGE OF GOD, then every man would have three persons as part of his makeup. So who or what are our other persons? |
Trinitarians don't understand it to mean that a human being is composed of multiple persons. I think the following statement is a fair representation of their view on this point.
| Quote: | | Adam was made in the image of God. He was not triplets but he had a trinity nature. He was alone in the same sense that God was alone. Yet, he was made of body (ability to manipulate material things), soul (life) and spirit or the "mental disposition" or the proper intellect to direct the God-created body into which He "breathed the breath of life." |
Link |
Nevermind all the metaphysicals, Trinitarians have boiled it down and explained the Trinity as a Godhead composed of three different persons.
So to mimic this "image of God" a man has to have a schizophrenia of exactly three different persons in his head. |
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Mattathias King of the Jungle

Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 1991 Location: Atlanta
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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| Ryck wrote: | Trinitarians have explained the Trinity as a Godhead composed of three different persons.
So to mimic this "image of God" a man has to have a schizophrenia of exactly three different persons in his head. |
I've met thousands of Trinitarians (on three continents) and I've yet to meet one that thinks (s)he is "three different persons in his head". Where have you encountered such people? _________________ "All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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Ryck Lion King

Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Three persons ?? |
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| Mattathias wrote: | | Ryck wrote: | Trinitarians have explained the Trinity as a Godhead composed of three different persons.
So to mimic this "image of God" a man has to have a schizophrenia of exactly three different persons in his head. |
I've met thousands of Trinitarians (on three continents) and I've yet to meet one that thinks (s)he is "three different persons in his head". Where have you encountered such people? |
I haven't as of yet met Trinitarians that believed they are made in the image of their Trinitarian God by having three personalities in their heads.
But when I do boil down their example of Trinitarian dogma to a Godhead with a three person schizophrenia, needless to say they are not half as amused about it as I am.  |
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cballard Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 728 Location: WV
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Ryck, some physical examples of how trinitaritans understand God are the shamrock used by St. Patrick; one plant with three leaves all working for the good of the one plant. Another I have heard is a chord in music, each playing at their own key, but making one sound. I don't think any trinitarians believe in a | Quote: | | three person schizophrenia | divided Godhead that you seem to think is inheirent in trinitarian theology. Please rethink. |
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Ryck Lion King

Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| cballard wrote: | Ryck, some physical examples of how trinitaritans understand God are the shamrock used by St. Patrick; one plant with three leaves all working for the good of the one plant. Another I have heard is a chord in music, each playing at their own key, but making one sound.
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The examples of nature are too arbitrary and inconclusive because leaf clusters and patterns among all the species of plants, both current and past, vary greatly.
A music chord is a combination of two or more notes. Again, this example is too arbitrary and inconclusive.
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I don't think any trinitarians believe in a | Quote: | | three person schizophrenia | divided Godhead that you seem to think is inheirent in trinitarian theology. Please rethink. |
If that's what the "Godhead" is composed of - of Three Persons yet One God - then I simply boiled it down to its obvious conclusion.
If a man with a three person schizophrenia in his head is not acceptable and considered not normal but a God with a Three Person schizophrenia in His Head is, then if they don't like the implication, blame the dogma.
Let's remember what the definition schizophrenia is: A situation or condition that results from the coexistence of disparate or antagonistic qualities, identities, or activities. (American Heritiage Dictionary)
The definition of the Trinity is the coexistance of of three divine persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit - each of which are co-equal, co-eternal, co-divine yet distinct from each other - in one God or Godhead.
Definition of Godhead: the nature of God especially as existing in three persons (Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)
So like I said, blame the dogma for the unsavory implication.
Personally, I don't belive in the Trinity God but in the Biblical God who always was, always is, and always will be One Himself. |
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cballard Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 728 Location: WV
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The examples of nature are too arbitrary and inconclusive because leaf clusters and patterns among all the species of plants, both current and past, vary greatly.
A music chord is a combination of two or more notes. Again, this example is too arbitrary and inconclusive. |
What does this prattle mean? You say it's arbitrary and inconclusive. Somethings in nature reflect the wisdom of God and His nature. Does one have to prove the nature of God? Where do you find it? Where does Jesus' salvation fit into your understanding of God? Can you prove it by nature? As my son told me, if you have to have proof, there is no need for faith. From the mouths of babes! |
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habeshaw Growing Guppy

Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 41
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:32 am Post subject: Three Persons in flesh? No. |
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With the name of God, His Son and the Holy Sprit, One God, Amen.
hi All, I think james has asked a good question, but the question seems that he/James want to lough rather than to learn
Any way,here is my answer,
Trinity belives :
they are same in Judgement, Authority,and Power
they are different in body, work, name.
There difference means,
Using the Father, God thinks,
Using the Son, God acts,talks,
using the Holy Sprit, God has life and give life.
Now what does it mean when we say body? since you and I think like the world thinks, we forgot to think spiritually with Holy sprit.
Do you think that a body should have to be composed of Blood & Flesh to be called as 'Body'? No!!! think the Angels, they don't have Flesh and Blood, but they are sprit with out Flesh and Blood. but can't we say that an angel has no body? or is this not possible counting angles?No, of course we can count them.
Ok if that is the case, can we expect three body with flesh from Trinity too? No...
And for your question can we expect three body with flesh in humans? No.
But that is not my answer, in fact a human is created in the image of Trinity, it ofcaurse has three basic properties
of Trinity, which makes a human completely different from another animals which did not created in the likiness of God.
Then, what are the three properties of a human?
1. using the Father, a human thinks.
2. using the Son, a human talks, has language, and acts
3. using the Holy Sprit, a human lives forever.
Now these are three completely different, but completely inter-related properties, can we say that a human is three, No. and with that same analogy, we can't say God is Three.
Can you get at least one of the above properties from any other animals? No...
Some of you say that, "how can you know that? even Solomon with that much wisdom didn't know that?",
my answer is Christ is better that King Solomon.
Remeber, as a child Christian, at least we belive in our soul, a human has a soul and a flesh, a flesh will decay and die, but a soul will live forever. Do you belive in this? i think you will, if that is the case, can we say that a human is two? answer for your self.
That is a brife answer, but i say to you,In my religion, you will never get any concept with out reason,and any question unanswered, as far as God permits a human to Know that question and concept.
Now, should i lough on you as you lough at Triniterians cause you think you got some brilliant concept which will throw us forever?No i shouldn't lough at you, cause you miss, cause you are my brother by Christ.
But Remember, when we say Holy Sprit, it is the Sprit of God, like soul is the Sprit of Human, you can get this from the bible clearly.Can you separate a heart from kidney, or a lever from intestine with out hurting another, no they will make up a human together, and
create One man and called with that.
That is what to mean Trinty,composed of three properties in One.
But before criticizing something, you should research to know the truth first, You better know what to mean Trinity?
Do you think that Catholics and Orthodox's belive that there are three real throne which God sits? No we don't belive like that. what we belive is that there is One God and One Throne.
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Unless Jesus Christ is the Almighty God, how can he say,'I am the Truth, the Way, and Life', since we know that the True truth, the true life, and the true way can only be possessed by One God.
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Unless God lies, how can we say that Jesus Christ is not God, rather he is the Only Son of God? since Bible says,
coffee produces only Coffee, wine produces Wine, and nature thought us a frog produces frog, a monkey produces monkey, and a human produces human
and God will also produces God if there is a case.
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But there was a case and God told us i have a child, the only Begotten Son, called Jesus Christ, then we say that God produces God
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Finally, Jesus Christ is God. Oh Christ, we love you. |
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Ryck Lion King

Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| cballard wrote: | | Quote: | The examples of nature are too arbitrary and inconclusive because leaf clusters and patterns among all the species of plants, both current and past, vary greatly.
A music chord is a combination of two or more notes. Again, this example is too arbitrary and inconclusive. |
What does this prattle mean? You say it's arbitrary and inconclusive. Somethings in nature reflect the wisdom of God and His nature. Does one have to prove the nature of God? Where do you find it? Where does Jesus' salvation fit into your understanding of God? Can you prove it by nature? As my son told me, if you have to have proof, there is no need for faith. From the mouths of babes! |
Now you're going off on a different vector.
This "prattle" means that what you selected for your "proofs" are too arbitrary and varied to make the claim on Three being the numerical representation of God Persons that make up "God". Unless you are prepared to argue that there is a "God" for every kind of numerical cluster of leaves, including three; and a "God" every cluster of notes that make up a musical chord, including three. That would have you more in common with Hinduism than with Christianity.
I'm happy for your son. |
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Ryck Lion King

Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: Re: Three Persons in flesh? No. |
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| habeshaw wrote: |
Then, what are the three properties of a human?
1. using the Father, a human thinks.
2. using the Son, a human talks, has language, and acts
3. using the Holy Sprit, a human lives forever.
Now these are three completely different, but completely inter-related properties, can we say that a human is three, No. and with that same analogy, we can't say God is Three.
Can you get at least one of the above properties from any other animals? No...
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Let's see ...
1. There are people who "think" without any claims of using the Father.
2. All living things "talk" in one way or another.
3. A visit to any cemetary can lead one to conclude that humans don't live forever.
This is too arbitrary for the claim of Three being the numerical representation of God.
In my opinion, humans have more qualities than these. Being optimistic, forgiving, loving, caring, sharing, funny, playful are just the tip of the iceberg of qualities humans are born with, not to mention a number of negative qualities we'd prefer not to mention.
So limiting your sampling to just "Three" aspects in order to "prove" a point on the numerical structure of God is again too arbitrary to be conclusive.
Strange that none of you have gone to the Bible to find that Scripture that says that God is composed of Three Of Them.
I'll place myself under my own criticism and show the Scriptural basis on my belief on One being the numerical representation of Persons that make up God.
John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Matthew 19:17 Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
1 Timothy 2:5 There is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 8:6 Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Peace. |
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cballard Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 728 Location: WV
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This "prattle" means that what you selected for your "proofs" |
Hold on right there I'm not offering "proofs". I'm just trying to show how trintarians understand the Godhead. To believe it takes faith. There's no way to prove it. I don't know how Jesus and the Holy Spirit fit into your God, but you can't prove there is even a God. |
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Rocket House Cat
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 160
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Interesting, what a sad statement. "You can't prove there is a God?" Then you don't believe what the Bible says. You're mind is filled with what a few so-called scientists have told you, that there was a big bang and here we are. Perhaps you have this new theory, the big bang was causes by a little tiny Adam. Well you can buy it , I don't. So, to me at least, the fact that there is a universe, the fact that we exist is proof enough for me, that God exists. Do I believe what the Bible tells me, that God is one, I certainly do. God did not create a trinity. Jesus/Yeshua was not a God, so all this trinity talk, no matter where you heard it is a lot of nonsense. It stems from the Pagen culture that created the original Catholic, Universal church and has spun off to protestants also. God created a people called Isrealites who sinned against Him to the point that God turned His back on them. The only way the Isrealites could be forgiven by God and restored to His good graces, there had to be a grand sacrifice made. That sacrifice came from a man, His name was Jesus/Yeshua. The fact that Jesus/Yeshua was a man and not a God, makes what He did even greater. |
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