Please help me with the massacre at Jezreel

Phinehas

Someone has pointed out to me an apparent conflict within the Tanakh regarding whether or not God changes His mind. In the first half of 2Kings 10 we see Jehu, king of Judah, putting to death all those related to King Ahab. In the second half of 2Kings 10 we see Jehu putting to death all of the priests and prophets of Baal.

Verse 10 reads:
Know then, that not a word the LORD has spoken against the house of Ahab will fail. The LORD has done what he promised through his servant Elijah."

So this massacre appears to have been the will of God.

Verse 30 reads:
The LORD said to Jehu, "Because you have done well in accomplishing what is right in my eyes and have done to the house of Ahab all I had in mind to do, your descendants will sit on the throne of Israel to the fourth generation."

So the massacre appears to meet with God's approval.

Yet in Hosea 1, we have God saying to Hosea in verse 4: "...I will soon punish the house of Jehu for the massacre at Jezreel,..."

Any assistance with this would be greatly appreciated.

Phin

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

A close paralell to this is when God moves Israel's enemies to take them captive, then pronounces judgement on the captive for doing what he desired.

Also in the case of Pharaoh:

Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very thing I raised you up, so that I might display My power in you, and so that My name might be publicized in all the earth." Ex. 9:16
Rom 9:18 So, then, to whom He desires, He shows mercy. And to whom He desires, He hardens.
Rom 9:19 You will then say to me, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will?
Rom 9:20 Yes, rather, O man, who are you answering against God? Shall the thing formed say to the One forming it, Why did You make me like this? Isa. 29:16
Rom 9:21 Or does not the potter have authority over the clay, out of the one lump to make one vessel to honor, and one to dishonor? Jer. 18:6
Rom 9:22 But if God, desiring to demonstrate His wrath, and to make His power known, endured in much long-suffering vessels of wrath having been fitted out for destruction,
Rom 9:23 and that He make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy which He before prepared for glory,

God's plan evolves but his ultimate purpose never changes.

Phinehas · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:40 am Post subject:

gswisher, thanks for your reply. However, I think you may have missed the point of my question.

In the case of God inciting Israel's enemies to attack Israel and then punish them for doing so, that doesn't fall into the category of God changing His mind.

In the case of Pharaoh, God raised Pharaoh up for the purpose of displaying the sovereignty of God to the Israelites. There, too, there was no change of mind on God's part.

Phin

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

But in view of this we see God's plan evolving, not a change in direction or purpose. God set up the Law of Moses. He did not change his mind when he created a new covenant. He brings a new order to things, but each change is part of his eternal plan. He planned to have Judas betray Christ. Did God approve that Judas did this? From the eternal big picture--yes. On an individual basis, Judas was not approved. God uses evil for good. Did he want Joseph to be a slave? Yes and no.

Phinehas · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 6:14 am Post subject:

I think we're drifting into predestination. I would disagree with your assertion that God planned to have Judas betray Jesus. I would say that God planned on Judas betraying Jesus. In other words, God knew what Judas' decision would be, and planned accordingly. What Satan meant for evil, God used for good.

In regard to my original question, I should mention that it is for a discussion on an Islamic discussion forum. So, they're trying to use this example to show that God does change His mind and also that the Bible is false since it claims that God does not change His mind.

Phin

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

Anyone who looks for falsehood will not see truth.

Ryck · Lion King Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1015

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

Let me check with my publisher. Wink

larryjf · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 12:30 pm Post subject:

In 2 Kings 10 you have to take verses 30 AND 31 into consideration.

30 - The LORD said to Jehu, "Because you have done well in executing what is right in My eyes, and have done to the house of Ahab according to all that was in My heart, your sons of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel."
31 - But Jehu was not careful to walk in the law of the LORD, the God of Israel, with all his heart; he did not depart from the sins of Jeroboam, which he made Israel sin.
So we see that Jehu is rewarded for what he did to the house of Ahab by making his dynasty last 4 generations. But, because he was not fully devoted to the Lord, God disciplined him. There is nothing wrong with God rewarding even the unsaved when they do something that is in God's will, that doesn't mean they will be saved in the end.

The word Jezreel is interesting because of the dual ideas behind it.
It can mean 'God scatters' or 'God sows', depending on the context of what is being said. So it can either be a good thing, or a bad thing.

Phinehas · Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:08 am Post subject:

Van · Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:23 am Post subject:

Phin, my study Bibles offer this take:

Jehu highjacked the prophets words for his own advantage. The Lord had said through his prophet that Ahab's decendents would not sit on the throne. After Jehu in effect slaughtered the kids, he said it was fulfilling the words of the Lord. (God told me to murder defense) but again, through His prophet Hosea God condemns the slaughter.

So I think it is doing something that seems consistent with the Word of God, yet not really for the glory of God, where Jehu runs afoul of the Lord.

In summary God said something would happen. Someone made it happen. God was not pleased. No change of mind concerning the outcome, but it was accomplished not in accordance with the will of God.

God would have caused the kids not to sit on the throne by some intervention. Did he harden Jehu's heart? The Bible does not say. Clearly the prophecy was not fulfilled in a manner consistent with how God expects his servants to behave.

Remember the sin of Moses that cost him the promised land? Doing what God wanted in a way that God did not want. So Jehu was rewarded, his decendents through 4 generations were King of the north, but because of his error, God condemned and punished the north which turned from God like a harlot with affection driven by greed.

HeKkLeR · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 3:41 pm Post subject: