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Key of Twilight
Big Hamster
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 97
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 Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: Homosexuality the Same as any other Sin? |
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How is it people can categorize being homosexual with any other sin? To say that fighting the urges of a homosexual is the same battle straight people face against their sins is ludicrous. For a homosexual to not engage in homosexuality means a lifetime of being alone, not just being celibate, but being alone as in having no partner to share their life with. If being alone was so easy straight people would not get married. The institution of marriage would have never been. Homosexuals can have friends, but as anyone should know having friends is not the same as having a partner/spouse. If homosexuality is a sin then we are chosen ones by God called to lead a life of extreme unimaginable struggle in his name and should be sympathized with not judged and discriminated against. People point out that nuns and monks lead lives of celibacy, but theirs was a choice they made to follow God's calling not an obligation based on something they did not choose and it takes a very rare type of person to be able to answer that calling; it is not something that just anyone can do. (btw this is all IMO not scientific facts so don't ask for references these are just My personal experiences)
What are everyone's thoughts on the matter?
_________________
Nowhere does the Bible state that the sexual orientation of homosexuality is sinful it merely instructs anyone, gay or straight, that any sexual act that does not spring from a place of love, respect and commitment to the other person involved is sinful. |
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ShardikSon
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 590
Location: Aux Arcs
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: |
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I can only say that the behavior of people is the problem.
I believe that the intent of the scripture is to point out that ANY behavior where we give in to the desires of the flesh is sinful, and we face judgment for it.
The hypocrite who would condemn you for laying with another man or women, while cheating on his wife, or taking a prostitute is probably going to be judged far more harshly than you would be, I think.
I have enough trouble worrying about my own behavior to spend much time worrying about what sins others might be committing.
Being alone is not easy, but, neither is living with someone, unless you have learned to be comfortable with yourself, first.
All you can do is let God guide you, as it is you who must answer to him when the time comes.
_________________
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"Logic is a defined process for going wrong with confidence and certainty" - CF Kettering
In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart. - Mohandas Gandhi
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I delight greatly in the LORD;
my soul rejoices in my God...
- Isaiah 61:10 (NIV) |
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Stereotypebe84
Not So Newbie
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Homosexuality the Same as any other Sin? |
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| Key of Twilight wrote: | How is it people can categorize being homosexual with any other sin? To say that fighting the urges of a homosexual is the same battle straight people face against their sins is ludicrous. For a homosexual to not engage in homosexuality means a lifetime of being alone, not just being celibate, but being alone as in having no partner to share their life with. If being alone was so easy straight people would not get married. The institution of marriage would have never been. Homosexuals can have friends, but as anyone should know having friends is not the same as having a partner/spouse. If homosexuality is a sin then we are chosen ones by God called to lead a life of extreme unimaginable struggle in his name and should be sympathized with not judged and discriminated against. People point out that nuns and monks lead lives of celibacy, but theirs was a choice they made to follow God's calling not an obligation based on something they did not choose and it takes a very rare type of person to be able to answer that calling; it is not something that just anyone can do. (btw this is all IMO not scientific facts so don't ask for references these are just My personal experiences)
What are everyone's thoughts on the matter? |
To me, celibacy feels like the hardest thing in the world. However, Christ never promised life would be easy. We are to take up our crosses daily. For whatever reason, some crosses are heavier than others. I don't know why it is, but it is.
Also, being celibate doesn't necessarily equal alone. I know several celibate gay and lesbian Christians who live with another gay or lesbian celibate Christian. While it doesn't replace passionate love, it does allow for a non-sexual intimate bond.
Another issue is that of reparative therapy (attempting to make a homosexual straight). There are many well-intentioned and some not so well-intentioned pastors and other Christians who strongly advocate for the idea that gay people can "become straight." This is rhetoric that has no basis in Scripture or science. I did Exodus and it practically ruined me. I know dozens upon dozens of people who have gone through the same thing. You are told if you just have enough faith, God will "heal" you of your homosexuality. The problem is that this never happens. So then you have people thinking that all of this religion stuff is a sham and they turn away and never look back, which is terribly sad. Instead of making homosexuals heterosexual, we should be more concerned in supporting them in living a chaste life that is pleasing to God. If more people did that, I think we would have a lot more homosexuals that were raised in the Church, living a chaste life and staying in the Church. But when you have churches telling people that their salvation is contingent upon being straight or at least actively struggling against the orientation, when there is no real possibility of changing orientations, you are bound to end up with a resentful person.
And I am with you. People should not be judged or discriminated against. Most of my gay friends are not celibate. They know how I feel about it and I know how they feel about it. Demonizing them does little good. Actually, the Christians who demonize and speak of gay people as if they are predators and other sorts of things are doing great harm to the Kingdom. Many gay men and women who were raised in the church hate the church and God now because of the terrible emotional abuses they have suffered. Those who have inflicted abuse will have to answer for that on the Last Day.
-S |
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Key of Twilight
Big Hamster
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I agree wholehearted, but the idea of living with someone who I had passionate feelings for, for me at this time, would just make my life so much harder than just being alone. Fighting the temptation to act on my urges would be infinitely harder if the object of my desires was in the same room with me everyday. I don't know though maybe it would become easier with time. It would work great if I could find some kind of prescribed medication that eliminated any and all sex drive. This issue of kissing and sharing a bed, cuddling, etc comes up though which seems like a gray area. I would love to hear more about the people you know living in these situations.
_________________
Nowhere does the Bible state that the sexual orientation of homosexuality is sinful it merely instructs anyone, gay or straight, that any sexual act that does not spring from a place of love, respect and commitment to the other person involved is sinful. |
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Evee
Moderator
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 661
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Key & Shardikson,
{{Hugs}}. I would like to respond to some points you both made but it's late here & I need to get up early for work so I'm bidding farewell for the night. I'll get back to it tomorrow.
_________________
Don't get caught in the trap of thinking you know everything God has to say b/c you've read the Bible. Remember, God is STILL speaking. And surprisingly, through people we DON'T expect. |
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Carico
German Shepherd
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Homosexuality the Same as any other Sin? |
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| Key of Twilight wrote: | How is it people can categorize being homosexual with any other sin? To say that fighting the urges of a homosexual is the same battle straight people face against their sins is ludicrous. For a homosexual to not engage in homosexuality means a lifetime of being alone, not just being celibate, but being alone as in having no partner to share their life with. If being alone was so easy straight people would not get married. The institution of marriage would have never been. Homosexuals can have friends, but as anyone should know having friends is not the same as having a partner/spouse. If homosexuality is a sin then we are chosen ones by God called to lead a life of extreme unimaginable struggle in his name and should be sympathized with not judged and discriminated against. People point out that nuns and monks lead lives of celibacy, but theirs was a choice they made to follow God's calling not an obligation based on something they did not choose and it takes a very rare type of person to be able to answer that calling; it is not something that just anyone can do. (btw this is all IMO not scientific facts so don't ask for references these are just My personal experiences)
What are everyone's thoughts on the matter? |
One cannot take away his own sins. Only Jesus can take away our sins through his death on the cross. So homosexuals can no more get rid of their homosexuality than the rest of us can get rid of our lust by an act of the will. The rest of us have to admit our sexual sins and ask for forgiveness for them. So why do homosexuals think they should be exempt? Do they think they are special or better than the rest of us? If so, they couldn't be further from the truth. 
_________________
Blessings in Christ,
Heidi |
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Evee
Moderator
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 661
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Carico wrote: | | One cannot take away his own sins. Only Jesus can take away our sins through his death on the cross. So homosexuals can no more get rid of their homosexuality than the rest of us can get rid of our lust by an act of the will. The rest of us have to admit our sexual sins and ask for forgiveness for them. So why do homosexuals think they should be exempt? Do they think they are special or better than the rest of us? If so, they couldn't be further from the truth. |
I don't think that's what Key is saying. He's not saying that he can take away his own sin. Did you actually read the post? So what you're saying IOW is that a homosexual's whole life will be asking for forgiveness for "lusting" after another? Are you saying that Jesus will completely take away the sin of lust for this homosexual? And what's with the rolling of the eyes? Does homosexuality disgust you that much?
_________________
Don't get caught in the trap of thinking you know everything God has to say b/c you've read the Bible. Remember, God is STILL speaking. And surprisingly, through people we DON'T expect. |
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Carico
German Shepherd
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| Evee wrote: | | Carico wrote: | | One cannot take away his own sins. Only Jesus can take away our sins through his death on the cross. So homosexuals can no more get rid of their homosexuality than the rest of us can get rid of our lust by an act of the will. The rest of us have to admit our sexual sins and ask for forgiveness for them. So why do homosexuals think they should be exempt? Do they think they are special or better than the rest of us? If so, they couldn't be further from the truth. |
I don't think that's what Key is saying. He's not saying that he can take away his own sin. Did you actually read the post? So what you're saying IOW is that a homosexual's whole life will be asking for forgiveness for "lusting" after another? Are you saying that Jesus will completely take away the sin of lust for this homosexual? And what's with the rolling of the eyes? Does homosexuality disgust you that much? |
Only born again Christians know what the power of the Holy Spirit can do and how God's forgiveness replaces the desire to sin. Once we have tasted the glories of the Holy Spirit, then the "pleasures" of the sin in which we used to engage become distasteful and abhorrent in comparison. That's how Jesus takes away our sins.
So man cannot "decide" by an act of the will not to lust. The battle belongs to the Lord, not to us. That's why Christ's death on the cross is the only solution to any sin. Once Jesus cleans the inside of our cups, our outsides will automatically become clean as well. We become so thankful that he already paid for our sins that our hearts are filled with love and thanksgiving, not the desire for selfish pleasure. 
Every sin disgusts me, including my own. Using the way God created sex for our own selfish pleasures is as much an abomination to God as it is to our own bodies. We then see ourselves & other people as nothing more than a piece of meat & objects of our lust and thus cannot determine what's best for them since we see them as objects of pleasure for us. There can hardly be anything more selfish.
_________________
Blessings in Christ,
Heidi |
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dabmci
House Cat
Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 152
Location: Wylie
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Carico,
That was well put, but you must be careful that people don't think you hate the person as well as the sin. I saw Evee getting a little testy about rolling eyes.
Evee,
As much as I rack my brian about the homosexual issue I too do the same about why I struggle with my own personal sins in life. After reading thru these post I have learned to humble myself and not cast stones. I personally believe it is a sin and I see in scriptures the support for this way of thinking, but let God be the judge not me. I have some wonderful friends that are homosexual and I would give them the shirt off my back but they know where I stand on this view and they love me the same and I them. We pray for each other and leave it at the cross. I would love to tell you my story offline if you would like to hear it and maybe you would understand why I feel the way I do.
God Bless |
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Carico
German Shepherd
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| dabmci wrote: | Carico,
That was well put, but you must be careful that people don't think you hate the person as well as the sin. I saw Evee getting a little testy about rolling eyes.
Evee,
As much as I rack my brian about the homosexual issue I too do the same about why I struggle with my own personal sins in life. After reading thru these post I have learned to humble myself and not cast stones. I personally believe it is a sin and I see in scriptures the support for this way of thinking, but let God be the judge not me. I have some wonderful friends that are homosexual and I would give them the shirt off my back but they know where I stand on this view and they love me the same and I them. We pray for each other and leave it at the cross. I would love to tell you my story offline if you would like to hear it and maybe you would understand why I feel the way I do.
God Bless |
Homosexuals are no better or worse than the rest of us. They sin just like the rest of us. But we need to put God's Word first so we know what's right, wrong, good and evil. Only then can we do what's best and loving for those we love. If we disagree with God and claim that homosexuality isn't a sin, then we are leading homosexuals away from redemption and heaven and straight on the path to hell. So I don't have the power to judge people, nor am I qualified to do so. I can only pass along the words of our Savior to those I love so they can experience the glories of heaven with him throughout eternity. 
_________________
Blessings in Christ,
Heidi |
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Just the Beginning
Newbie Alert
Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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It's been really interesting to read the posts in this forum. I, too, feel the need to put in my two cents.
I know what God's Word says about homosexuality, but I have to say that I admire homosexuals. Let me explain...
As Christians, we sometimes hide the fact that we are believers because of the persecution that we fear we may suffer. Homosexuals know that persecution is around every corner, and yet they are so secure in who they are and where they stand, that they walk outside everyday.
As Christians, we sometimes place ourselves "above" others because we possess knowledge that they don't. Homosexuals are the most accepting, loving, non-judgemental group of people I know.
Like I said before, I know what the Bible says about homosexuality, and believe it to be true, but we could all learn a thing or two from them. |
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Daystar
Puppy
Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 218
Location: Midwest US
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Homosexuality the Same as any other Sin? |
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| Key of Twilight wrote: | How is it people can categorize being homosexual with any other sin? To say that fighting the urges of a homosexual is the same battle straight people face against their sins is ludicrous. For a homosexual to not engage in homosexuality means a lifetime of being alone, not just being celibate, but being alone as in having no partner to share their life with. If being alone was so easy straight people would not get married. The institution of marriage would have never been. Homosexuals can have friends, but as anyone should know having friends is not the same as having a partner/spouse. If homosexuality is a sin then we are chosen ones by God called to lead a life of extreme unimaginable struggle in his name and should be sympathized with not judged and discriminated against. People point out that nuns and monks lead lives of celibacy, but theirs was a choice they made to follow God's calling not an obligation based on something they did not choose and it takes a very rare type of person to be able to answer that calling; it is not something that just anyone can do. (btw this is all IMO not scientific facts so don't ask for references these are just My personal experiences)
What are everyone's thoughts on the matter? |
I agree that all sin, in a basic sense, is the same. We all sin in that we are all from sin being from Adam. At the same time sin isn't all that the Bible has to say about homosexuality. It says that you can't be a Christian and practice homosexuality. One has to make a choice. It is difficult but to say that one is alone simply because they don't have a mate isn't exactly the case because there are relationships outside of sex and even marriage.
Many gays married in a heterosexual union and raised families because of this in the past. In the past it was just what was often done. What was expected by society.
Personally, as a non practicing homosexual I can say that it isn't so difficult that it can't be done or that it takes someone special to do it. It takes God's help and with that, anything good can be acomplished.
Though you may occaisionally fall short you have to get back on the right track. |
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Carico
German Shepherd
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| Just the Beginning wrote: | It's been really interesting to read the posts in this forum. I, too, feel the need to put in my two cents.
I know what God's Word says about homosexuality, but I have to say that I admire homosexuals. Let me explain...
As Christians, we sometimes hide the fact that we are believers because of the persecution that we fear we may suffer. Homosexuals know that persecution is around every corner, and yet they are so secure in who they are and where they stand, that they walk outside everyday.
As Christians, we sometimes place ourselves "above" others because we possess knowledge that they don't. Homosexuals are the most accepting, loving, non-judgemental group of people I know.
Like I said before, I know what the Bible says about homosexuality, and believe it to be true, but we could all learn a thing or two from them. |
No, actually that isn't true. Homosexuals have only become "confident" as their sin is being accepted by the world. Before this last generation, homosexuals always hid in the closet and were ashamed (which they should be because all of our sin is shameful).
_________________
Blessings in Christ,
Heidi |
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Negative Overload
Goldfish
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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They didn't always hide it, although the vast majority did. To be fair though, they were afraid of what might happen to them. Shunning, ostracization, disownment, death...did they deserve to have to fear those things? If so, why not other sinners? Why just these particular ones?
Furthermore, is everyone supposed to hide in a closet and be ashamed, or just those uppity homosexuals who no longer know their place? I don't see you exhorting others to do so.
And why are you out of your closet? Get back in there and feel some shame already. After all, that's how every sinner's supposed to roll, right? According to you, we should.
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You truly could learn some things from them... |
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summertime
Rattlesnake
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 447
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Homosexuality the Same as any other Sin? |
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| Quote: | | quote="Carico"- One cannot take away his own sins. Only Jesus can take away our sins through his death on the cross. |
This is true. And, for the record, this has already been done. Everyone's sins have been forgiven already.
| Quote: | | So homosexuals can no more get rid of their homosexuality than the rest of us can get rid of our lust by an act of the will. |
Homosexuals have no need to rid themselves of their homosexuality. God made them so from birth (Matthew 19:12) See also, "When Jesus Met A Gay Person". Right click on link and 'save target as' mp3).
| Quote: | | The rest of us have to admit our sexual sins and ask for forgiveness for them. So why do homosexuals think they should be exempt? Do they think they are special or better than the rest of us? |
We do not think we are special nor better than the rest. It is not our homosexuality that we need forgiveness for. We sin like the rest, but our sin is not the sin of being intimate relationship oriented towards someone of the same gender. |
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