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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1459
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| cballard wrote: |
First of all, faith is a gift. God is the one who gives this gift. You're not going to get faith by any certain church. I think Mother Teresa knew this. To say her lack of faith was due to her church and beliefs is complete nonsense. |
Maybe because that's not what I said. I said Mother Teresa was full of the Holy Spirit, and it was her heart that made her continue her work. Her faith never left her spirit. However, it was the RC church that sucked the life out of her.
| cballard wrote: |
You are angry at the RC leadership because you think they are hypocrites and liars. And I say, there are many, many, preachers of every denomination and even among us laymen, who are hypocrites and liars. Why are you particularly angry at the RC? What is it they teach that shows oppression? |
Why? Because the RC church is immensely powerful, that is why. You can, and will, have hypocrites, scammers, and liars in every denomination. So what?
The problem here is, we have these wolves leading millions of people globally. They have their dirty hands in everything from politics to current events, to the environment, to art, and everything in between. Millions of people look to them for leadership. And I feel like the kid in the story of "The Emporor's New Clothes."
What is it that shows oppression?
I listed them already.
1) Why are little children denied communion?
2)Why do we have to confess our sins to some priest?
3)Why is it that scriputure is not taught?
4) Insistance on Rosary and wordship of Mary.
5)Opposition to birth control
6)Excommunication for divorce (however annulment is just dandy) 
7)Sacrament of Confirmation - like the RC church has the ability to give out the Holy Spirit at will.
8) Damnation for anyone who isn't a member of the RC church.
9) Saints must first be cannonized in order to earn "sainthood".
Hunny, we are all saints!
Do I have to go on????
NONE of this stuff is in the Bible! NOT ONE THING here.
If you can show me otherwise, I'd be happy to hear it.
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: Religion |
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| eleven wrote: | | I find this action despicable because Mother Theresa is an icon of God's love |
As if there's a difference between an icon and an idol? (or an idolization?)
Yehushuan
(Watchin' the money.)
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1459
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:15 am Post subject: Re: Religion |
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| Yehushuan wrote: | | eleven wrote: | | I find this action despicable because Mother Theresa is an icon of God's love |
As if there's a difference between an icon and an idol? (or an idolization?) |
Oh you betcha!
Mother Teresa is an icon - she was a model of what a disciple was meant to be.
An idol is the illusion" of something meaningful.
| Yehu wrote: |
Yehushuan
(Watchin' the money.) |
Oh, so you're a a bookkeeper for the Vatican?
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Religion |
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| eleven wrote: | Oh you betcha!
Mother Teresa is an icon - she was a model of what a disciple was meant to be. |
Then you have no problem with the Roman Catholic practice of veneration, I gather, in that you’ve beatified Mother Theresa all on your own without waiting for the Church to let you know you’re right?
Seems like you both consider her an icon, it’s just that you (like Luther) have rebelled against their Ecclesiastical Authority.
Yehu
(Just watchin', not countin')
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1459
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Religion |
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| Yehushuan wrote: |
Then you have no problem with the Roman Catholic practice of veneration, I gather, in that you’ve beatified Mother Theresa all on your own without waiting for the Church to let you know you’re right? |
Oh, I have plenty of problems with RC anything, but getting back to the subject, why do I have to wait for the RC church to know I'm right? And as far as their "practices" go, I couldn't care less.
| Yehushuan wrote: |
Seems like you both consider her an icon, it’s just that you (like Luther) have rebelled against their Ecclesiastical Authority. |
Several points here:
First, Mother Teresa, according to the RC church, has not quite made the grade yet. First they have to have her jump thru a few hoops, and if she meets all the "requirements" of sainthood, by golly, she will be an "official" saint. WOW!
Question if I may?: Who set the standards and definitions of what a "saint" is and what the requirements are?
OOPSSS.......it was the RC church! What a co-inkey dink!
Now let us look at the other side of the coin for a moment, just for fun, shall we?
Let's just say for a moment, that one of those letters reveals that somewhere in here very long and blessed life, Mother Teresa fell in love and slept with some lover. I can guarantee you, one of two things will happen.
Either they would squash that info in order to continue on with this canonization BS, or if it became public, would denounce this woman from the sainthood she has already (without their stupid help) achieved.
Yet we have pedophile priests all over the damned place being hidden in transfer to transfer to different parishes, ruining people's lives, and I'm supposed to look to these losers for spiritual guidance???!??!??!?! Are you freakin' kidding me???
This woman spent her entire life in the service of others so poor and so sick, that none of us here in the comfy USA would want to set foot in it, yet I need some ring-bearing, hat wearing, robe dressed, self-proclaiming infallible "father" to decide whether she is worth of the title of saint?????
Tell me, what do you think HE is eating tonite? Where is HE sleeping tonite? Who is going to be kissing HIS ring tomorrow???
And now I'm looking at the two of them side by side and all I can see is Luke 18: 9-14
9-12He told his next story to some who were complacently pleased with themselves over their moral performance and looked down their noses at the common people: "Two men went up to the Temple to pray, one a Pharisee, the other a tax man. The Pharisee posed and prayed like this: 'Oh, God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, crooks, adulterers, or, heaven forbid, like this tax man. I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income.'
13"Meanwhile the tax man, slumped in the shadows, his face in his hands, not daring to look up, said, 'God, give mercy. Forgive me, a sinner.'"
14Jesus commented, "This tax man, not the other, went home made right with God. If you walk around with your nose in the air, you're going to end up flat on your face, but if you're content to be simply yourself, you will become more than yourself."
| Yehu wrote: |
Yehu
(Just watchin', not countin') |
What, calculator need new batteries?
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Religion |
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| eleven wrote: | | This woman spent her entire life in the service of others so poor and so sick, that none of us here in the comfy USA would want to set foot in it, ... |
Well it's not like she had anything else to do...
| eleven wrote: | | What, calculator need new batteries? |
No, my abacus ran out of rosary beads.
Yehu
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1459
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Religion |
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| Yehushuan wrote: | | eleven wrote: | | This woman spent her entire life in the service of others so poor and so sick, that none of us here in the comfy USA would want to set foot in it, ... |
Well it's not like she had anything else to do... |
| eleven wrote: | | Yehu wrote: | | What, calculator need new batteries? |
No, my abacus ran out of rosary beads.
Yehu |
Oh darn!!!!!!!!!!!!! Try the EWTN shopping site. They carry all kinds of rosaries, right there next to the Joseph statues...................
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cballard
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 728
Location: WV
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: |
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eleven wrote:
| Quote: | | The problem here is, we have these wolves leading millions of people globally. They have their dirty hands in everything from politics to current events, to the environment, to art, and everything in between. |
Question: Tell me, who do you listen to to decide right from wrong?
eleven listed several oppressions committed by the RC.
| Quote: | 1) Why are little children denied communion?
2)Why do we have to confess our sins to some priest?
3)Why is it that scriputure is not taught?
4) Insistance on Rosary and wordship of Mary.
5)Opposition to birth control
6)Excommunication for divorce (however annulment is just dandy)
7)Sacrament of Confirmation - like the RC church has the ability to give out the Holy Spirit at will.
8) Damnation for anyone who isn't a member of the RC church.
9) Saints must first be cannonized in order to earn "sainthood". |
My responses:
1. Not oppressive. You don't belive in communion anyhow.
2. That teaching is in Scripture.
3. RC say the Rosary is a pious practice, but they don't teach the worship of Mary.
4. It is.
5. ALL Christians thought birth control was an evil practice prior to a Lambeth Conference held by the Anglican Church in the early 1900's. Most other denominations of Protestants went along with their decision. You also went along with their decision of women preachers. Wonder how many of you will go along the approval of gay relationships.
6.Wrong.
7.Who did you get the Holy Spirit from?
8.Wrong.
9. Wrong.
Shall you go on? Because you don't belive in any spicific system of worship or conduct, I see no point.
However, you could answer a question for me. Why do you think Jesus started a church if there you don't believe in any organized set of beliefs, conduct or ritural? I just can't understand how you arrived at the conclusion that a church is a non-important issue from Scripture. Can you show me? |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 2)Why do we have to confess our sins to some priest?
2. That teaching is in Scripture. |
With all due respect Ms. Ballard, where?
Jesus said to confess before men:
Mat 10:32 KJV Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Paul said to confess before God:
Rom 14:11 KJV For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
John never mentioned to whom we should confess, but the “he” is strongly implied, or do you believe that the priest is faithful and just to forgive us our sins? Do you really believe your priest cleanses you from unrighteousness?
1Jn 1:9 KJV If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
James?
Well if you can embrace the James who had Paul sent to prison, James said:
Jas 5:16 KJV Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Well even James never said “priest,” but rather “one to another.” So I’d be happy to confess my faults to you, here’s one: I think the Pope is possessed by demons. And another, I’ve never met a Mormon who had a brain. (Wait a second, that last one isn’t a fault but rather an observation. Hmmmm…) How about, I don’t like stupid people. There ya go.
Yours truly,
Yehu
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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PS:
| Quote: | 7)Sacrament of Confirmation - like the RC church has the ability to give out the Holy Spirit at will.
7.Who did you get the Holy Spirit from? |
Other people who actually have the Holy Spirit.
Yehu
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5286
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How about, I don’t like stupid people. There ya go. |
Know-it-all, is not exactly that lovable either!
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Nobby wrote: | | Quote: | | How about, I don’t like stupid people. There ya go. |
Know-it-all, is not exactly that lovable either! |
Well NOW you went and done it. (You'll have to give me my penance.)
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1459
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| cballard wrote: |
Question: Tell me, who do you listen to to decide right from wrong? |
Gee, give me a second here.......his name is on the tip of my tongue.............oh yeah, now I remember-
how about Jesus?
[quote="cballard"]
eleven listed several oppressions committed by the RC.
| Quote: | 1) Why are little children denied communion?
2)Why do we have to confess our sins to some priest?
3)Why is it that scriputure is not taught?
4) Insistance on Rosary and wordship of Mary.
5)Opposition to birth control
6)Excommunication for divorce (however annulment is just dandy)
7)Sacrament of Confirmation - like the RC church has the ability to give out the Holy Spirit at will.
8) Damnation for anyone who isn't a member of the RC church.
9) Saints must first be cannonized in order to earn "sainthood". |
| cballard wrote: |
My responses:
1. (RE: Denying communion to children.) Not oppressive. You don't belive in communion anyhow.
2. That teaching is in Scripture.
3. RC say the Rosary is a pious practice, but they don't teach the worship of Mary.
4. It is.
5. ALL Christians thought birth control was an evil practice prior to a Lambeth Conference held by the Anglican Church in the early 1900's. Most other denominations of Protestants went along with their decision. You also went along with their decision of women preachers. Wonder how many of you will go along the approval of gay relationships.
6.Wrong.
7.Who did you get the Holy Spirit from?
8.Wrong.
9. Wrong. |
1. Not oppressive??? You've never seen little ones cry because everyone else got a cookie, and they didn't???
And where do you get this bizarre idea that I don't believe in communion??
2. No it's not. Scripture says if you have offened or sinned against someone, you need to go to them and make it right. There is nothing in there that says to go to a priest, and the rattle off 10 or 20 prayers as pennance to be forgive. In fact, Jesus warned against this type of prayer. Do not be repetitive.
3) Again you are incorrect. Anyone raised in the catholic church remembers the May procession.
4) No it's not. Scripture is not taught. A lot of catholics don't even know how to reference scripture.
A woman I work with teaches confirmation classes. She thought it was really funny when handed a bible, and asked to look up certain scriptures, her kids would automatically flip to the back of the book to look for the "index"
5) The only evil here is the church saying that we are supposed to breed like animals. Some couples don't want children, so now what? They cannot share intimacy??? How ridiculous is that???
| cballard wrote: |
Shall you go on? Because you don't belive in any spicific system of worship or conduct, I see no point. |
How do you know what I believe? You've never asked me, just told me what YOU think I believe.
| cballard wrote: |
However, you could answer a question for me. Why do you think Jesus started a church if there you don't believe in any organized set of beliefs, conduct or ritural? I just can't understand how you arrived at the conclusion that a church is a non-important issue from Scripture. Can you show me? |
Jesus most certainly did start a church - the worldwide church of believers. However it was men who started "religion". And religion very often has nothing to do with God. It is a tool used in order to control people, nothing more!
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1459
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Yehushuan wrote: | | Nobby wrote: | | Quote: | | How about, I don’t like stupid people. There ya go. |
Know-it-all, is not exactly that lovable either! |
Well NOW you went and done it. (You'll have to give me my penance.)
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LOL!!!!!!!! Oh my gosh.....who was the enlightened one that made that comment??
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| eleven wrote: | LOL!!!!!!!! Oh my gosh.....who was the enlightened one that made that comment??
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Wait a second, the name's on the tip of my tounge too... uh... yeah, that's it John the Baptizer.
Mat 3:1-2 DRB And in those days cometh John the Baptist preaching in the desert of Judea. (2) And saying: Do penance: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Yehu
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