Are the dead alive now

Ray J · Not So Newbie Joined: 29 Jul 2008 Posts: 6 Location: PA

Are The Dead Alive Now ?
Good question, and I'll give it my best shot. We all know what the Church teaches, but what does God's Word say about it.
I'm all about looking at the big picture when it comes to the Bible so when I see 46 clear verses speak to a particular thought and a few that seem to be saying something else, well... majority wins.

I Thessalonians 4:13-17 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not precede them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, and with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

I Corinthians 11:30 "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep." (and it's not talking about bed time)

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

Job 14:12-14 "So a man lieth down, and riseth not till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, untill thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come."

Long before Jesus, the concept of an immediate afterlife in heaven or hell began with the Greeks, and later continued by the Romans. It was not taught in the Hebrew scriptures, and it was not believed by the Jews, except for certain sects of Jews which had adopted certain elements of Greek mythology into their doctrine. The Jews did not believe in an immediate afterlife in heaven, but in a future resurrection of the dead.

Daniel 12:2 "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

Other verses that refer to death as sleep ...
I Kings 2:10 11:43 14:20 15:8 15:24 16:6 16:28 22:40 22:50
II Kings 8:24 10:35 13:9 13:13 14:16 14:22 14:29 15:7 15:22 15:38 16:20 20:21 21:18 24:6
II Chronicles 9:31 12:16 14:1 16:13 21:1 26:2 26:23 27:9 28:27 32:33 33:20
Psalms 13:3
Proverbs 3:24
Deuteronomy 31:16
II Samuel 7:12
Acts 13:36
Ephesians 5:14

John 3:13 "No one has ever gone to heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man."

What is the hope of the Church?
Your answer should be the return of Christ. If Satin wanted to cloud that hope, how would he go about doing that? How about promoting the idea that when you die, your eternal life starts at that point. Why wait or hope for the return when we are all floating around praising God and having a good old time now. The Church teaches that when we die we are somehow judged and either go to heaven or are sent to hell. Wait a minute, when is judgement day? Revelation places this event after the return of Christ. Why then, does the Church continue to believe that the dead are alive now?
I guess they are just not comfortable with the whole sleep thing or don't trust God to raise them from the dead when Christ returns as He promised.

The cool thing about sleep is that you do not sense the passage of time. At night in your bed, from the moment you fall asleep till the next morning, eight hours have passed, and to you, it was nothing. So it is for those who take their last breath. There is no passage of time. The next moment for them is the return of Christ. "And so shall we ever be with the Lord." Not bad, I say.

(Just a simple word study of "sleep" turned up some interesting truths.)

Pete · Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:46 am Post subject:

Hi RJ, You are right on. Nowhere does the Bible teach that one goes immediately to heaven or hell at death.

Another interesting verse is 1 Corinthians 15:20-23; "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."
V 21; "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead."
V.22 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
V.23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

It is obvious that no one goes to heaven or hell immediately at death.

As a sidelight, this is when folks are born again, and not when they have an emotional "religious" experience, and become converted.

On another point, pretribulation rapture folks believe that Christ will return halfway to earth before the tribulation, and secretly resurrect the dead in Christ from their graves, along with the living, and take them back to heaven where they have already been. What's that about?

ragman13 · German Shepherd Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 325

Hello Ray J, Nice to meet you. I am not going to tell you that you are wrong or right, but I would like for you to address some passages and explain what is meant by them if we are not to be present with the Lord upon death.

1)
Luke 23:43

Pete · Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject:

Mattathias · Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject:

ragman13 · German Shepherd Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 325

Mattathias · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:07 am Post subject:

Pete · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:23 am Post subject:

Pete · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:53 am Post subject:

Revelation 1:10 also tells us that the entire book is about the "Lord's Day", that is , Christ's yet future return. That's what Revelation is about - future events.

As an aside, Trinitarians insist that "Lord's day" here, is a reference to Sunday, and is proof that John observed the first day of the week instead of the seventh. Just shows you the length that Trins go to in twisting Scripture in order to justify their pagan practices.

Ray J · Not So Newbie Joined: 29 Jul 2008 Posts: 6 Location: PA

Wow! I'm surprised to see the large response to my first post. Looks like I got people thinking. Thanks for taking the time to add your thoughts.
Ray J

Nobby · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:07 am Post subject:

Ray J, you have copied this same post on four different forums & this is against the rules. I will delete some of them.
Nobby, Board Admin
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ragman13 · German Shepherd Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 325

Mattathias · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:54 am Post subject:

ragman13 · German Shepherd Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 325

Mattathias · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: