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mackin Newbie Alert
Joined: 22 Jul 2008 Posts: 1
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: Newbie Questions: Genesis |
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My Grandparents were very religious, but my knowledge of the Bible only comes from reading the Bible at Sunday dinner when I was with them. Not much of it really sank in as I was young and mostly wanted to get up and go outside and play. My interest now is more scholarly I would say and I've picked up the NKJV version and have started reading. I imagine I will have more questions, but of course the obvious place to start is Genesis. This is more of questions post than a debate post, so mods if there is somewhere else this should be please feel free to move.
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Q: What does "without form" mean in this context? Shapeless? Non-spherical? Flat?
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Okay, so on day one God creates light and divides it to make night and day and then on day three he makes, what I assuming are, the sun and the moon "Then God made two great lights...".
Q: What was the light that was created on the first day since the sun "the greater light" was not created until day three? And why, on day three, does God even set lights in the firmament if light was already created?
Was it some sourceless celestial light? Evening and morning are referenced in this passage, so there was a cycle of day to night. A day to night that proceeds the creation of the Sun and the moon. A sourced light would always leave half of a spherical object in darkness (night) therefore night would not be created so to speak but would be a function of the placement of the source. Only an omnidirectional light would have the ability to create day (by being on) and night (by being off).
Q: What is the other great light?
I assume it's talking about the moon, but, well, yeah...It's not a light it reflects light. How is this usually explained?
Yikes, this is getting long so I'll stop here. Thanks in advance to anyone who has thoughts on this. |
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eleven King of the Jungle

Joined: 28 Sep 2007 Posts: 1561 Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: |
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1) Yes
2) The glory of God Himself
3) Probably
On to Exodus............ _________________ Pain is inevitable;
misery is optional. |
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macca Newbie Alert
Joined: 28 Jul 2008 Posts: 2
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: questions |
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an attempt at answering your questions. mackin
I feel without form refers to the land mass not being in any recognizable form.
It was not until after the devastation of the flood that the land shapes we know were formed.
The light is a little more difficult.
the fact that light was created does not mean that it was visible; there was no-one but God to see it, and He does not need light to see!
but as you will see further on in the creation description, other things were created, but not evident!
Yes, the lesser light is the moon, it does reflect light, but does shine a weaker light on the earth! |
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Plotinus Lion King

Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 1044 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Newbie Questions: Genesis |
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| mackin wrote: |
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Q: What does "without form" mean in this context? Shapeless? Non-spherical? Flat?
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Interesting question mackin. Good idea to raise these questions. The NKJV follows the traditional wording of the KJV and its interpretation. But since the seventeenth century an amazing amount of material has been uncovered by archaeologists about ancient middle eastern cosmologies. Some of these ideas have crept into more modern translations. The window has been opened for these different interpretations because the Hebrew of the opening verses is intrinsically difficult--at least to ignorant people like me, and apparently to many Hebrew scholars as well.
I'm very fond of the CEV translation. I don't always trust it. However, it is top notch when it comes to incorporating modern scholarship. As the CEV has it
| Quote: |
In the beginning God
created the heavens
and the earth.
The earth was barren,
with no form of life;
it was under a roaring ocean
covered with darkness.
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In the CEV, the reference is to barrenness and the lack of life, not to the shape of the earth. In ancient cosmologies, the earth was flat. There is no land: it is covered with ocean. Land does not appear until verse 9.
| mackin wrote: |
Okay, so on day one God creates light and divides it to make night and day and then on day three he makes, what I assuming are, the sun and the moon "Then God made two great lights...".
Q: What was the light that was created on the first day since the sun "the greater light" was not created until day three? And why, on day three, does God even set lights in the firmament if light was already created?
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In ancient middle eastern cosmology, the astronomers of the time had not realized that the light of day actually comes from the sun. So the light of day is represented as coming first, and the sun--simply a bright light, but not a source of daylight--comes after.
| mackin wrote: |
Was it some sourceless celestial light? Evening and morning are referenced in this passage, so there was a cycle of day to night. A day to night that proceeds the creation of the Sun and the moon. A sourced light would always leave half of a spherical object in darkness (night) therefore night would not be created so to speak but would be a function of the placement of the source. Only an omnidirectional light would have the ability to create day (by being on) and night (by being off).
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Here you are mixing their astronomy with modern astronomy. The two are not compatible.
| mackin wrote: |
Q: What is the other great light?
I assume it's talking about the moon, but, well, yeah...It's not a light it reflects light. How is this usually explained?
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Same problem. We know that the light of the moon is a reflection from the sun--that is our astronomy--they did not. _________________ One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.
Heraclitus, fragment 45, quoted in Diogenes Laertius 9.7. |
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