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TBax
King Kong

Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:45 am Post subject:

Virbate,

Virbate wrote:

So he correctly discerned the need to identify himself as a Christian. Obviously to ask "what are you" is trying to get into denominations and divisions.

There are literally tens of thousands of sects that call themselves "Christian". Appearently dabmci hasn't learned much in his. Is it because his sect doesn't teach very well, or perhaps he hasn't taken advantage of their education programs? We don't know, but asking an innocent question isn't going to kill dabmci.

In the past Catholics were discouraged from reading the Bible. I still run across some who say "I don't read scripture". I now run across some who read it fervently, and have developed views contrary to the Catholic church, like rejecting Mary as the "mother of God", yet remain Catholic. Confused or disgusted

Yet that term, "Catholic", is a vital piece of information that tells us something. Cool

If dabmci doesn't wish to divulge that information, that is his decision. If one is ashamed of what they chose to follow, perhaps they shouldn't be following it. Ryck is right in that you don't need to be a mother hen, poking your nose where it doesn't belong. If being a busybody is "letting you light shine", please keep it under cover. Smile

Personally, I have never discerned Ryck to be malicious or have a hidden agenda. His question is innocent. To read something into that is being "overly critical", which is what Jesus was talking about here:

Matt 7:1 “Stop judging that YOU may not be judged; 2 for with what judgment YOU are judging, YOU will be judged; and with the measure that YOU are measuring out, they will measure out to YOU.

Luke 6:37 “Moreover, stop judging, and YOU will by no means be judged; and stop condemning, and YOU will by no means be condemned. Keep on releasing, and YOU will be released.

This "judging" Jesus was talking about dealt with being overly critical.

Why are you trying to exert an "external system of control" on Ryck and not allow for his personal internal freedom????????? Your actions speak against your philosophy. Embarassed

Virbate wrote:

External control, for the record, simply means trying to control a person without fully allowing for their full freedom to be who they decide to be.

_________________
Agape,
TBax

Last edited by TBax on Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:02 am; edited 2 times in total

TBax
King Kong

Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:56 am Post subject:

luvnlife wrote:

Now he's kind of "spreading the love" and including Virbate on his list of people he's not talking to.

If people don't try to be reasonable I am under no obligation to keep speaking with them.
_________________
Agape,
TBax

dabmci
House Cat

Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 160

Location: Wylie

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:31 am Post subject:

Ryck/Tbax, Sorry It takes long for me to respond to these post but I try to go back and read where I left off and sometimes it 4 days later. But I wanted to respond to what Ryck asked me. The question was [b] "what am I now?"[b] I am a Christain I follow Christ. There is much for me to learn and I don't come to this forum as if I know everything. I can be corrected. You need to learn how to correct people if the are wrong and they won't be so turned off by the message. When you walk around with the mind set of knowing all you have replaced Jesus with yourself and that is a turnoff, and for some people when you go there no matter how true the statements you are saying they won't believe them because they are not coming out of Love they are coming out of Pride on your part. This is the very reason lots of nonbelievers distrust the churches because people come off as holy than thou. Just a thought.

TBax
King Kong

Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:03 am Post subject:

dabmci,

Nice points.

dabmci wrote:

The question was [b] "what am I now?"[b] I am a Christain I follow Christ.

Well, why is it you have not learned "that much" in the past 10 years?

dabmci wrote:

You need to learn how to correct people if the are wrong and they won't be so turned off by the message.

I agree, and perhaps something I personally need to work on. Yet the truth is, not all will be corrected regardless of how you approach it. Jesus was that greatest teacher to walk the earth, yet the majority rejected even him.

Telling people they are wrong automatically puts up their defenses. Trying to get them to reason out the points is a less offensive approach. Jesus did this alot, but he also told people the straight truth at times. Different things work on different people. Some will keep up their barriers, some will humbly tear them down. God is the one who draws people to the truth. He is the one who causes it to grow in their hearts. We play a part by taking the truth to them. We need to find a way to make it appealing without causing the defenses to go up. But it will not always work.

dabmci wrote:

When you walk around with the mind set of knowing all you have replaced Jesus with yourself and that is a turnoff, and for some people when you go there no matter how true the statements you are saying they won't believe them because they are not coming out of Love they are coming out of Pride on your part.

True. Yet that was Jesus' approach many times. He spoke with authority, and told people like it was. No one would accuse Jesus of "not coming out of Love they are coming out of Pride on your part".
I agree, balance is to be had. But if you water down the truth too much, people wouldn't get the point and continue on their coarse. Confused or disgusted

_________________
Agape,
TBax

Virbate
Rattlesnake

Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:02 am Post subject:

dabmci wrote:

Ryck/Tbax,

Sorry It takes long for me to respond to these post but I try to go back and read where I left off and sometimes it 4 days later. But I wanted to respond to what Ryck asked me. The question was [b] "what am I now?"[b] I am a Christain I follow Christ. There is much for me to learn and I don't come to this forum as if I know everything. I can be corrected. You need to learn how to correct people if the are wrong and they won't be so turned off by the message. When you walk around with the mind set of knowing all you have replaced Jesus with yourself and that is a turnoff, and for some people when you go there no matter how true the statements you are saying they won't believe them because they are not coming out of Love they are coming out of Pride on your part. This is the very reason lots of nonbelievers distrust the churches because people come off as holy than thou.

Just a thought.

Your statements are obviously quite perfect. However I have to agree with TBax that you can't water stuff down too much. After all you're a living, breathing human with a beating heart. You have to take a stand and declare the truth one way or the other - no time to be politically correct when the world is in chaos. That is one natural fact that the JW teach, among many true things they teach. Of course, everyone in the world knows a lot of truth, and JW's are no exception.

I see that you originally wrote that you're a Christian. Now when pressed for "details" you have repeated "I am a Christian who follows Jesus". This is a very kind and gentle answer, which is recommended to turn away wrath. I applaud your choice. However I still hold to my own, which is to take a more vibrant stand. Maybe when I am wiser I'll be more calm, but right now I'm very heated up about this division issue. We all have our pet peeves. I do not apologize for standing vociferously and pro-actively against what Ryck tried to do.

Here is a question for you: "Do you think I should apologize?"

dabmci
House Cat

Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 160

Location: Wylie

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:12 am Post subject:

TBax wrote:

dabmci,

Nice points.

dabmic wrote:

mic"]The question was "what am I now?" I am a Christain I follow Christ.

Well, why is it you have not learned "that much" in the past 10 years?

TBax,

It not that I have not learned "much" as you sa y it, but I have a greater understanding of what I did learn. This forum is such great place to gather resources. I use the resources given here to go research myself. During my 10yrs as a Christain I read scriptures and took many verses at face value without understanding why the writer was inspired to speak or wrote in the way they did, or why the Jewish people reacted the way they did. Now I do and it complments what I knew already and gives better understand to the things I was not to certain on. I am talking about non essentials.

TBax
King Kong

Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:25 am Post subject:

dabmci, I see. Growing in knowledge doesn't hurt, as long as it is accurate. Keep searching the Bible to make sure what you are learning is true. _________________ Agape, TBax

TBax
King Kong

Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:26 am Post subject:

Virbate,

Why are you trying to exert an "external system of control" on Ryck and not allow for his personal internal freedom????????? Your actions speak against your philosophy. Embarassed

Virbate wrote:

External control, for the record, simply means trying to control a person without fully allowing for their full freedom to be who they decide to be.

_________________
Agape,
TBax

Virbate
Rattlesnake

Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:10 am Post subject:

TBax wrote:

Virbate,

Why are you trying to exert an "external system of control" on Ryck and not allow for his personal internal freedom????????? Your actions speak against your philosophy. Embarassed

Virbate wrote:

External control, for the record, simply means trying to control a person without fully allowing for their full freedom to be who they decide to be.

Actually my purpose is to explain to Ryck that it is incorrect (unnatural) to try to divide what is indivisible. Due to the illusion of cultism, and divisions that do not exist, he is trying to divide Christianity, and this is unnatural.

I support his freedom to make his own choice, and to decide his own thinking on the matter. However his choice was not in his best interest, nor in the best interest of anyone else. I do not wish to force him to think of the Way as one, but I wish to encourage him so that he realizes freely that the Way is one. This way he will be freed from the bondage of trying to divide the indivisible, which is a fruitless and frustrating endeavor that robs its victims of their power.

I will never go against nature, which is my only devotion.

Ryck
Lion King

Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject:

Virbate wrote:

Thanks Ryck. So basically you're saying that I should keep my light under a cover. Your basic point is that the salt of the earth should not be salty. Basically, what you're trying to say is that I'm not my brother's keeper. Well, you're wrong about that.

Actually I need to let my light shine into the darkness, and I am as salty as can be, and I am my brother's keeper. So I stand for the natural order, and I fight oppression wherever I see it, and when God gives the strength and courage to make a stand. That's the natural Way.

I see you've left off from trying to defend or justify or indefensible actions, and now are turning on me, saying I should leave you alone to do what you see fit. Well the fact is what you did is harmful, and you were in fact spreading oppression. Therefore it is my duty to speak up - and yes, wherever I go, the spirit of truth makes me a protocol police. I'm sure that the admin will agree with that policy, and their "official" statements have suggested that they agree with the spirit behind that policy. Even if they didn't, it is God's forum.

So you claim that divisive labeling wasn't on your mind. You must really think people are stupid! To prove that point, simply provide a reasonable explanation for your choice of words. I have explained why I see them to indicate that you're trying to divide Christianity (the Way), which is not a lawful division. So prove me wrong, and I will be silent. If you can't, then you must accept my judgment on this matter.

Oy vey!!

Take a laxative, relax, and let it pass. You'll feel better in the morning.

Virbate
Rattlesnake

Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject:

Ryck wrote:

Virbate wrote:

Oy vey!!

Take a laxative, relax, and let it pass. You'll feel better in the morning.

First you denied any wrongdoing. Then you gave up on that track and claimed that it wasn't my business. Now you're trying to ridicule me. If I read my Bible right what's next, a cross on a hill? Not going to work this time, my friend. Just let's talk about the point. It's not insignificant, as you are trying to suggest in ridiculing tones.

The fact is that you're teaching people to think that it's right to divide Christianity, and it just isn't right. I understand your legitimate concern about people who call a different thing by that name. But more labels and legislation isn't the solution - that's playing into the enemies hands.

We must learn to speak the truth, and teach the truth, so that we can be free. That is the natural order of life, which God has ordained. Don't feel I'm putting you down. Check my language and you'll see that I'm only putting down the actions and philosophy you have been embracing. I know you have the power, naturally, to stand for nature and speak the natural truth. So say that a christian is a christian, and admit that it's wrong to divide unity, and let's move forward. No harm, no foul. We all win, and we can become stronger, to overcome the strongholds of the enemy.

Ryck
Lion King

Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject:

TBax wrote:

Virbate,

Why are you trying to exert an "external system of control" on Ryck and not allow for his personal internal freedom????????? Your actions speak against your philosophy. Embarassed

Virbate wrote:

External control, for the record, simply means trying to control a person without fully allowing for their full freedom to be who they decide to be.

Yep.

Did anyone notice Virbate's parting shot to me?

Virbate wrote:

...

So you claim that divisive labeling wasn't on your mind. You must really think people are stupid! To prove that point, simply provide a reasonable explanation for your choice of words. I have explained why I see them to indicate that you're trying to divide Christianity (the Way), which is not a lawful division. So prove me wrong, and I will be silent. If you can't, then you must accept my judgment on this matter.

Contrary to his own claims about what he does not like to see impositions placed on others, Virbate has imputed on me wrong motives and labeling, and claimed that I insulted someone - without even hearing from that person if he felt insulted by me or not. And that I had to accept his justifications.

When I answered him that he got me all wrong he won't believe me, repeated the same, and added that not only that I'm lying but that I regard everyone on this board as stupid. And dared me to prove him wrong! Then implied his new position on this board of Judge and Jury that I MUST ACCEPT HIS JUDGEMENT ON THIS MATTER.

What a character!

I'm not mad anymore. I got a kick out of that! LOL! Laughing

Maybe he is trying to work himself up to the new avatar label of "Dictator of the Board"? Should we tell him that such a title does not exist? Wink

Ryck
Lion King

Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject:

dabmci wrote:

No worries, Dabmci. Virbate helped us pass the time with a curious diversion. Smile

Good points. Not good to be dogmatic. We should be receptive to new ideas or information as it applies to the Scriptures.

Sometimes people who have studied the Bible for a long time or even recently can come up with a nugget of wisdom that can really be enriching. On the other hand, someone can come up with something which on examination is not founded on the Bible. That adds to you too, in a way, because you have examined that it is flawed information. So that helps you too because you know who to avoid and what to avoid.

Being open minded doesn't mean being ever credulous. It means being willing to consider new information and ideas and examine them without biases. Afterwards you keep what is worthwhile and reject what is worthless. Hopefully you build a fund of knowledge and wisdom that not only benefits you but others around you too - to the glory of God.

NIV Pr 15:2 2 The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouth of the fool gushes folly.

TBax
King Kong

Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject:

Ryck,

Regarding Virbates diversion.

Ryck wrote:

Then implied his new position on this board of Judge and Jury that I MUST ACCEPT HIS JUDGEMENT ON THIS MATTER.

What a character!

Indeed!

Appearently he is the one who decides what is "natural" and what is "unnatural" and in your best interest as well. Embarassed

How did we ever get by without him? Laughing

_________________
Agape,
TBax

Luvnlife
Lion King

Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1271

Location: US

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject:

TBax:

Quote:

...which is what Jesus was talking about here:

Matt 7:1 “Stop judging that YOU may not be judged; 2 for with what judgment YOU are judging, YOU will be judged; and with the measure that YOU are measuring out, they will measure out to YOU.

Luke 6:37 “Moreover, stop judging, and YOU will by no means be judged; and stop condemning, and YOU will by no means be condemned. Keep on releasing, and YOU will be released.

This "judging" Jesus was talking about dealt with being overly critical.

Boy! The pots calling the kettle black.

This is exactly what you have done with me, TBax. You've been extremely judgmental where I am concerned then Virbate comes along and questions something and you accuse him of being judgmental.

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone......

You've thrown dozens at me.

In reference to Virbate, are you trying to remove the mote from your brothers eye without first removing the beam from yours?

Matt 7:
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Luv
_________________
Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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