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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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 Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Virbate wrote: | | Ryck wrote: | | dabmci wrote: | | This is all really good stuff. I am learning more here on this forum than I have learned in 10yrs of being a Christain. |
What are you now? |
Why not ask, "what new thing have you learned here, compared with what you learned before?"
Why approach someone labels first? Isn't it enough of a label to see that this is a human being? Hasn't he already explained himself enough?
What value is there is that question - "what are you?" All I can see is asking someone to validate himself with a label, which implies that he is not already valid. Has this person done something to earn your disfavor Ryck? |
You really imagine a great many evil things about me. 
The man made a statement about his past Christianity and I think I made a valid follow-up question -- if he wishes to elaborate what his current Christianity status is. That implies what key point or points that led him to this statement.
Has he assigned you as his personal spokesman as well as your assumed title of the board's mother hen?
We are all in a growth curve here, Virbate. dabmci really benefitted by something here and I'd like to know what that is and where he is now with it. |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Ryck,,
Nice responce to Virbate's attempt to derail an innocent question, and assign improper motive. I wanted to say something to him about this, but I really don't want to talk to him as he likes to turn any occasion into an opportunity to spread his confusing philosophy. 
| Ryck wrote: | | Has he assigned you as his personal spokesman as well as your assumed title of the board's mother hen? |
Amen, and amen. 
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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Virbate
Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Ryck wrote: | The man made a statement about his past Christianity and I think I made a valid follow-up question -- if he wishes to elaborate what his current Christianity status is. That implies what key point or points that led him to this statement.
We are all in a growth curve here, Virbate. dabmci really benefitted by something here and I'd like to know what that is and where he is now with it. |
If that's what you want to know, that should be what you ask. Instead, you asked: "What are you now?"
I have pointed out the difference between asking someone what they are, and asking someone what they learned. You have not responded to my point at all. Instead you claim that your only intention all along was to ask what has been learned.
Can you justify your choice of approach? How does "what are you now" ask someone what they have learned? Doesn't your question in fact focus on labels, instead of truth? There were no labels in Dabmci's statement, but you chose to conceive of it only in terms of labels. Is there any good reason for this?
You should not be offended when I defend the faith, as I do, against oppression by label-mongers who want to tie us up in bonds. Your approach reeked of label-mongering, so I spoke up. |
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Virbate
Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | Ryck,,
Nice responce to Virbate's attempt to derail an innocent question, and assign improper motive. I wanted to say something to him about this, but I really don't want to talk to him as he likes to turn any occasion into an opportunity to spread his confusing philosophy.
| Ryck wrote: | | Has he assigned you as his personal spokesman as well as your assumed title of the board's mother hen? |
Amen, and amen. |
His "confusing philosophy" is understood by so many even on this very site! So I guess the confusion is selective. How does the "confusing philosophy" decide who it should confuse?
Oh, I know... maybe whoever refuses to take the time to listen and understand gets confused by the "philosophy". That must be it. But then, isn't it that way with all teachings? You must listen first, and give a teaching a fair, impartial trial. Only then are you qualified to render a judgment. Have you done this? |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: |
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A person who works with wood is called a carpenter. A man who puts out fires for a living is a fireman. A man who follows in Jesus' footsteps is a Christian. A man who follows Buddha is a Buddhist. Labels are a reality that instantly tells us something about that person, but not everything. To try to eliminate them is unreasonable. 
| Virbate wrote: | | against oppression by label-mongers who want to tie us up in bonds. Your approach reeked of label-mongering, |
His approach showed him to be a label-monger??? Isn't that a label?
To assume Ryck will use whatever information he gets in a negative way is improper.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Virbate wrote: | | You must listen first, and give a teaching a fair, impartial trial. |
Unless you can answer my questions to you in a logical and impartial nondefensive way I will have no discussion with you.
The questions are the second post down on page 9 of Attention! Jehovahs Witnesses!
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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Virbate
Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | A person who works with wood is called a carpenter. A man who puts out fires for a living is a fireman. A man who follows in Jesus' footsteps is a Christian. A man who follows Buddha is a Buddhist. Labels are a reality that instantly tells us something about that person, but not everything. To try to eliminate them is unreasonable.
| Virbate wrote: | | against oppression by label-mongers who want to tie us up in bonds. Your approach reeked of label-mongering, |
His approach showed him to be a label-monger??? Isn't that a label?
To assume Ryck will use whatever information he gets in a negative way is improper. |
Of course carpenter and fireman are good and useful labels, created to inform, for the purpose of communication, and not for division. If you look at Dabmci's first statement, he said: | Quote: | | This is all really good stuff. I am learning more here on this forum than I have learned in 10yrs of being a Christain. |
So he correctly discerned the need to identify himself as a Christian. Obviously to ask "what are you" is trying to get into denominations and divisions. So please can anyone provide a justification for that?
Ryck claims his purpose was to find out what Dabmci had learned, so why not just ask? Why say to a christian who is happy to have learned something new: "What are you?"?
Label-monger is also a good, useful label for the purpose of communication and not division. It refers to someone who introduces divisive labels. Why try to divide the term "Christian"? You yourself admit that "a man who follows in Jesus' footsteps is a Christian". So what more was Ryck trying to find out do you suppose?
Last edited by Virbate on Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Virbate
Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | | Virbate wrote: | | You must listen first, and give a teaching a fair, impartial trial. |
Unless you can answer my questions to you in a logical and impartial nondefensive way I will have no discussion with you.
The questions are the second post down on page 9 of Attention! Jehovahs Witnesses! |
I've responded again directly to your questions on the second post of page 9 of Attention! Jehovah's Witnesses. |
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1271
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | Ryck,,
Nice responce to Virbate's attempt to derail an innocent question, and assign improper motive. I wanted to say something to him about this, but I really don't want to talk to him as he likes to turn any occasion into an opportunity to spread his confusing philosophy.
| Ryck wrote: | | Has he assigned you as his personal spokesman as well as your assumed title of the board's mother hen? |
Amen, and amen. |
When TBax is upset with someone, becomes annoyed with them or doesn't understand where they are coming from, he turns his back on them and quits talking to them.
That's what he's been taught.
Luv
_________________
Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Biblegateway Christian Viewpoints
Last edited by Luvnlife on Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1271
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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TBax said: | Quote: | | A person who works with wood is called a carpenter. A man who puts out fires for a living is a fireman. A man who follows in Jesus' footsteps is a Christian. A man who follows Buddha is a Buddhist. Labels are a reality that instantly tells us something about that person, but not everything. To try to eliminate them is unreasonable. |
I'm a Christian. Please ask TBax what his labeling of me has done for either of us.
Luv
_________________
Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Biblegateway Christian Viewpoints |
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pastor2022
Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 769
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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It is time to get back to the OP now. God bless.
_________________
Faith is the confident obedience to the Word of God in spite of circumstances or consequences. |
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1271
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| pastor2022 wrote: | | It is time to get back to the OP now. God bless. |
My post is directly related since TBax is forbidden (by his 'brothers') from speaking to me because almost 30 years ago, I decided to leave the JW's.
Now he's kind of "spreading the love" and including Virbate on his list of people he's not talking to.
Why? Because he can't wrap his mind around what Virbate is trying desperately to convey to him. So, out of frustration I suppose, he said he doesn't want to talk to Virbate (because he's trying to "spread his confusing philosophy"). So apparently you don't even have to be disfellowshipped to be shunned. You just need to adhere to a different Christian philosophy than the JW's.
This is how they treat people who have been disfellowshipped regardless of what the reasons or circumstances are. This is, indeed, what he has been taught.
Luv
_________________
Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Biblegateway Christian Viewpoints |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | Ryck,,
Nice responce to Virbate's attempt to derail an innocent question, and assign improper motive. I wanted to say something to him about this, but I really don't want to talk to him as he likes to turn any occasion into an opportunity to spread his confusing philosophy.
| Ryck wrote: | | Has he assigned you as his personal spokesman as well as your assumed title of the board's mother hen? |
Amen, and amen. |
Thanks. I'm still confused why he went out of his way to do that. Shouldn't this be the propriety of Dabmci? The question was directed to him. I had no malice intent. It was an innocent question.
It's a public board and I expected a public answer from Dabmci, not a public scolding from Verbate that I breached some sort of protocol. Who assigned him as the protocol police?
He is sticking his nose too personally in other people's business. |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Virbate wrote: | | Ryck wrote: | The man made a statement about his past Christianity and I think I made a valid follow-up question -- if he wishes to elaborate what his current Christianity status is. That implies what key point or points that led him to this statement.
We are all in a growth curve here, Virbate. dabmci really benefitted by something here and I'd like to know what that is and where he is now with it. |
If that's what you want to know, that should be what you ask. Instead, you asked: "What are you now?"
I have pointed out the difference between asking someone what they are, and asking someone what they learned. You have not responded to my point at all. Instead you claim that your only intention all along was to ask what has been learned.
Can you justify your choice of approach? How does "what are you now" ask someone what they have learned? Doesn't your question in fact focus on labels, instead of truth? There were no labels in Dabmci's statement, but you chose to conceive of it only in terms of labels. Is there any good reason for this?
You should not be offended when I defend the faith, as I do, against oppression by label-mongers who want to tie us up in bonds. Your approach reeked of label-mongering, so I spoke up. |
You are not a board Moderator. I see no official notice that you are the protocol police around here.
I asked the question to Dabmci, not you. If he gets my question wrong and finds offense in it I'll apologize to him and rephrase it. And I won't need you as umpire nor as mediator. Your services are not required, thank you very much.
I suggest you wait for the person-in-question's reaction rather than being the consummate pre-emptive busybody, accuse me of things that were not on my mind, and your imagining your justification for any of it.
If Dabmci gets offended by my question Dabmci and I will handle it as good Christian men.
Have a nice day! |
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Virbate
Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Ryck. So basically you're saying that I should keep my light under a cover. Your basic point is that the salt of the earth should not be salty. Basically, what you're trying to say is that I'm not my brother's keeper. Well, you're wrong about that.
Actually I need to let my light shine into the darkness, and I am as salty as can be, and I am my brother's keeper. So I stand for the natural order, and I fight oppression wherever I see it, and when God gives the strength and courage to make a stand. That's the natural Way.
I see you've left off from trying to defend or justify or indefensible actions, and now are turning on me, saying I should leave you alone to do what you see fit. Well the fact is what you did is harmful, and you were in fact spreading oppression. Therefore it is my duty to speak up - and yes, wherever I go, the spirit of truth makes me a protocol police. I'm sure that the admin will agree with that policy, and their "official" statements have suggested that they agree with the spirit behind that policy. Even if they didn't, it is God's forum.
So you claim that divisive labeling wasn't on your mind. You must really think people are stupid! To prove that point, simply provide a reasonable explanation for your choice of words. I have explained why I see them to indicate that you're trying to divide Christianity (the Way), which is not a lawful division. So prove me wrong, and I will be silent. If you can't, then you must accept my judgment on this matter. |
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