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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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 Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:07 am Post subject: |
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The only problem with all of this, Golfjack, is that Paul uses the terms for mind and soul interchangeably and there simply isn't any significant different between the uses of these terms so you cant legitimately claim this separation.
The ancient use of the term translated "heart" is the center of thinking not mind (since this is a rather modern term) so be careful when you mix these things it seems like you've been trying to make some thesis about them and it just doesn't hold water if you understand they way the ancients used those terms.
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golfjack
Lion King
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1136
Location: arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: reply |
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I am not concerned with Ancients think about terms. I am concerned with what God's Word says about things.
Peace, Golfjack |
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Siam
Bear
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 675
Location: middle of oz
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: reply |
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| golfjack wrote: | I am not concerned with Ancients think about terms.
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Is that Brother Jack?
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golfjack
Lion King
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1136
Location: arizona
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: reply |
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We surely have a diverse group here. It would be nice to know what you guys really believe, and to know what denomination or non-denomination you belong to.
I will start out, I am a Pentacostal. I am a member of a Non-denominational church group. I believe in the gifts of the Spirit. I pray in tongues. I believe in healing, and is for today. I believe that some day, the church will be raptured, and probably pretty soon. I believe in the Virgin Birth and believe in the Trinity. I believe that the Jews are God's Chosen people. I believe in prophesies of old, and also the Prophets of today. I believe that one must be born again to enter into God's kingdom. I believe that we are saved by grace through faith. I believe in the five-fold ministry. I just believe what the Bible says.
Peace, Golfjack |
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: reply |
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| golfjack wrote: | We surely have a diverse group here. It would be nice to know what you guys really believe, and to know what denomination or non-denomination you belong to.
I will start out, I am a Pentacostal. I am a member of a Non-denominational church group. I believe in the gifts of the Spirit. I pray in tongues. I believe in healing, and is for today. I believe that some day, the church will be raptured, and probably pretty soon. I believe in the Virgin Birth and believe in the Trinity. I believe that the Jews are God's Chosen people. I believe in prophesies of old, and also the Prophets of today. I believe that one must be born again to enter into God's kingdom. I believe that we are saved by grace through faith. I believe in the five-fold ministry. I just believe what the Bible says.
Peace, Golfjack |
Ok, so what does denomination have to do with any of that?
Why ruin a good thing?
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golfjack
Lion King
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1136
Location: arizona
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: reply |
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Knowing tells me where people are coming from. I ask, if you were going to look for a church, would you not want to know its tenets of faith or are you willing for them to hide their beliefs, so they can deceive? As, you have probably noticed, I avoid the trinity discussion, JW discussion, and SDA discussion, and others. But, noone has to state anything for me. It would just be nice to know, and I mean not to be critical and will keep information for my own personal use.
Peace, Golfjack |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with eleven what does that have to do with denomination? You Golfjack and I both happen to be "non-denominational" doesn't that say it all in a nutshell?
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: reply |
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| golfjack wrote: | Knowing tells me where people are coming from. I ask, if you were going to look for a church, would you not want to know its tenets of faith or are you willing for them to hide their beliefs, so they can deceive? As, you have probably noticed, I avoid the trinity discussion, JW discussion, and SDA discussion, and others. But, noone has to state anything for me. It would just be nice to know, and I mean not to be critical and will keep information for my own personal use.
Peace, Golfjack |
I am also non-denominational.
Although I lived most of my life as a catholic, have worked in the Methodist church, a Pentecostal church, an inter-denominational church, and the the Reformed church, and a New Age church because as a theology student it was good to get different experiences. And you know what I found?
We all want the same thing.
So why don't we stop worrying about the wrappings and ribbons, and get inside the treasure chest? 
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2870
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: Faith |
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| golfjack wrote: | | Does anyone have a good definition of faith? I can think of two. |
Golfjack,
There are at least five different definitions of faith in common use by people today, and most often those who discuss faith never realize the other person with whom they speak quite often holds to a different definition.
The most common definition is that of the Kierkegaardian leap of faith. An expression that faith is belief in things that are in essence whimsical and arbitrary. Such Faith is set apart from and in contrast to knowledge. Since one cannot “know,” one must have faith.
In America, the definition of Faith held by the Protestant is synonymous with Testament. We “have faith” or believe things about certain unknowable propositions because of the veracity of the person who testifies to these things. Certain New Testament authors claim first hand referential experience with seeing Jesus having been resurrected. We believe such because of their honesty and integrity that is shown by the love for others evident within their life.
The Catholic, on the other hand, makes no distinction between “faith” and “THE faith” and most often uses the word “faith” to refer to ones participation in the sacraments and rituals of the Church. One has faith if one “faithfully” attends Mass., etc. "Hold on to the faith brother,” is not so much a call to believe certain doctrinal propositions, but rather is meant to be an encouragement to continue one’s participation in the celebration of the Eucharist, going to Confession, relying upon one’s baptism as the basis for one’s salvation etc.
Within the Word of Faith Churches (and I think you hail from the Hagan camp, no?) one can replace the word faith with the word expectation and never miss a beat. From all of the sermons and books I’ve read from Rhema ministries, again, the word “expectation” can be completely substituted for the word “faith” and nothing gets lost from their teachings.
In more, how can we say, “ethereal” charismatic fellowships, none of the above would comprise their definition of faith. Faith is, rather, a spiritual substance that acts like a trigger to release divine supernatural miracle power to alter things in the universe. I’m sure it could be better explained without giving the impression that such faith is like a kind of magical spell, but in essence, this kind of “faith” is seen more as a power. This definition most closely represents the Greek in Hebrews 11:1. “Faith is the reality-izer of things desired.” This verse doesn’t seek to define faith, in as much as it declares that one brings things hoped for into reality by the power of faith.
Not having yet read all eight pages, I’m sure to find other definitions presented, but it would surprise me if anyone uses the word in a different manner than the above five definitions.
God bless,
Yehu
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ragman13
German Shepherd
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: |
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Yehushuan,
Welcome back I have missed being able to read your posts. Hope that you can stay a while.
P.S. You where correct about 1 John 3:9 and I was wrong. 
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If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him. They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun of it. —Thomas Carlyle
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Siam
Bear
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 675
Location: middle of oz
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:27 am Post subject: |
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Golfjack asked:
We surely have a diverse group here. It would be nice to know what you guys really believe, and to know what denomination or non-denomination you belong to.
So;
I’ll let the Femms speak for me.
Title: Violent Femmes - I'm Nothing lyrics
I-M-N-O-T-H-I-N
I-M-N-O-T-H-I-N
I'm nothing'
I'm nothin'
Are you a republican or a democrat
A liberal fascist full of crap
I'm nothin'
I'm nothin'
Somebody somewhere might be something
But everybody everywhere
Knows that I'm nothin
Politics and dirty tricks
I got no time for stones and sticks
Politics and dirty tricks
I got no time I'm chasing chicks
I'm nothin'
I'm nothin'
Somebody somewhere might be something
But everybody everywhere
Knows that I'm nothing
I'm nothing but I'm not proud
'Cause being nothing it's not allowed
Are you a gay or are you straight
Do you believe in love
Or do you believe in hate
I'm nothin'
I'm nothin'
Somebody somewhere said he was something
But to everybody everywhere
I'm saying I'm nothing
I'm nothing. I'm like a cloud
I'm free to be alone in a crowd
What's your reality. It's not real to me
What's your anomaly. It is my destiny
I-M-N-O-T-H-I-N
I-M-N-O-T-H-I-N
I'm nothin'
Nothin'
Nothin'
I'm nothing now and I'll be nothing when
This nothing world has it's nothing end
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Faith |
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| Yehushuan wrote: | | golfjack wrote: | | Does anyone have a good definition of faith? I can think of two. |
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Hey Yehu!!! Long time, no chat. So glad to see you back!!!
| Yehushuan wrote: |
The most common definition is that of the Kierkegaardian leap of faith. An expression that faith is belief in things that are in essence whimsical and arbitrary. Such Faith is set apart from and in contrast to knowledge. Since one cannot “know,” one must have faith. |
Ok, you can count me out of that one.
| Yehushuan wrote: |
In America, the definition of Faith held by the Protestant is synonymous with Testament. We “have faith” or believe things about certain unknowable propositions because of the veracity of the person who testifies to these things. Certain New Testament authors claim first hand referential experience with seeing Jesus having been resurrected. We believe such because of their honesty and integrity that is shown by the love for others evident within their life. |
Nope. I'm not there either.
| Yehushuan wrote: |
The Catholic, on the other hand, makes no distinction between “faith” and “THE faith” and most often uses the word “faith” to refer to ones participation in the sacraments and rituals of the Church. One has faith if one “faithfully” attends Mass., etc. "Hold on to the faith brother,” is not so much a call to believe certain doctrinal propositions, but rather is meant to be an encouragement to continue one’s participation in the celebration of the Eucharist, going to Confession, relying upon one’s baptism as the basis for one’s salvation etc.
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DEFININATELY NOT THERE!!!
| Yehushuan wrote: |
Within the Word of Faith Churches (and I think you hail from the Hagan camp, no?) one can replace the word faith with the word expectation and never miss a beat. From all of the sermons and books I’ve read from Rhema ministries, again, the word “expectation” can be completely substituted for the word “faith” and nothing gets lost from their teachings. |
Huh???
| Yehushuan wrote: |
In more, how can we say, “ethereal” charismatic fellowships, none of the above would comprise their definition of faith. Faith is, rather, a spiritual substance that acts like a trigger to release divine supernatural miracle power to alter things in the universe. I’m sure it could be better explained without giving the impression that such faith is like a kind of magical spell, but in essence, this kind of “faith” is seen more as a power. This definition most closely represents the Greek in Hebrews 11:1. “Faith is the reality-izer of things desired.” This verse doesn’t seek to define faith, in as much as it declares that one brings things hoped for into reality by the power of faith. |
The power of positive thinking??
| Yehushuan wrote: |
Not having yet read all eight pages, I’m sure to find other definitions presented, but it would surprise me if anyone uses the word in a different manner than the above five definitions. |
I'll be waiting for ya.
God bless!
11
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Pain is inevitable;
misery is optional. |
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| Siam wrote: | Golfjack asked:
We surely have a diverse group here. It would be nice to know what you guys really believe, and to know what denomination or non-denomination you belong to.
So;
I’ll let the Femms speak for me.
Title: Violent Femmes - I'm Nothing lyrics
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See, here it is - in a nutshell.
I am nothing to this world, yet I am everything to God.
It's all a matter of what is real, and what is illusion.
Once you can distinguish between the two-
heaven/eternity is achieved.
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Pain is inevitable;
misery is optional. |
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golfjack
Lion King
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1136
Location: arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: reply |
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I didn't mean to start any denominational disputes here. If I did, please accept my apology. There are many that are good, and I think we all know which ones are not. As promised, I am not going to say anything about the ones I disagree with.
But, I will respond to some statements that are part of this forum. I see, some say that what we do here on earth is not doing any good. Some like Siam, I have no idea what he is talking about. Last week, I gave a sermon about being super spiritual. I will not bore you with the details. Eleven, you said I am nothing to the world. Didn't you mean to say, I am nothing without God? Does God use His people to tell people about Jesus? Of course He does. My goodness, if I were to go to somebody and tell them how spiritual I am them, they would probably think, I was crazy.
Folks, we have people dying and going to hell without Christ. Some say beliefs are not important. What else do we have to go out and preach and teach to a dying world? Am I going to be a funky, fruity Christian and tell people how spiritual I am? I hope not. They want to know what I believe and why I am a Christian. Then, they after accepting Christ, can go out to the byways and highways and preach Jesus. This is how Christianity started and nothing should change.
Peace, Golfjack |
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