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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1815
Location: Macau, China
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 Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: What would it take for you to switch sides? |
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What would it take for you to switch sides on the Creation vs. Evolution debates?
I know many members here are well versed on specifics and can post specific things. For me, being an "evolutionist" (which changed after much reading), I trust mainstream science and do not consider it to be some evil inside organization. So I trust the scientific process and peer review to work itself out.
I post this partly because it's my favorite forum here, and not many posts lately...
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5301
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Admin, I don't know what's happened to P1234567890.
He used to post a lot. FFT, Trinity, ana & RevJP. I won't
try to remember them all! 
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Pete
Lion King
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 1019
Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: |
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I think P123 disappeared about the time that Bible-Discussion went down for a while. Maybe he thinks it never came back.
The problem with a lot of so-called scientific posters is that they fail to realize where science leaves off and atheistic thinking kicks in. They tend to think that science and atheism are joined at the hip. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I think P123 disappeared about the time that Bible-Discussion went down for a while. Maybe he thinks it never came back. |
I understand he was anticipating a move after finishing his Phd, perhaps he has moved and started work and hasn't had time to look us up again... or perhaps he just got tired of the fisticuffs...
| Quote: | | The problem with a lot of so-called scientific posters is that they fail to realize where science leaves off and atheistic thinking kicks in. They tend to think that science and atheism are joined at the hip. |
I think this is descriptive of both sides of the aisle, not just the 'so-called scientific posters'.
| Quote: | | What would it take for you to switch sides on the Creation vs. Evolution debates? |
I would take discernible, demonstrable, repeatable, evidence that change (mircro) such as is described in evolutionary theory actually resulted in macro-evolutionary change, and it would take the same discernible, demonstrable, repeatable proofs on the creation of life.
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1815
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| Pete wrote: | | The problem with a lot of so-called scientific posters is that they fail to realize where science leaves off and atheistic thinking kicks in. They tend to think that science and atheism are joined at the hip. |
I haven't seen that...
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Bouncer
Alley Cat
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: Re: What would it take for you to switch sides? |
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| admin wrote: | What would it take for you to switch sides on the Creation vs. Evolution debates?
I know many members here are well versed on specifics and can post specific things. For me, being an "evolutionist" (which changed after much reading), I trust mainstream science and do not consider it to be some evil inside organization. So I trust the scientific process and peer review to work itself out.
I post this partly because it's my favorite forum here, and not many posts lately... |
A lot more than it would have 10 years ago.
First the Creationists and ID'ers would need to find new leadership. If Duane Gish or Behe or Dembski told me it was raining I would double check the sky even if I were already soaking wet.
Then, I would have to see them doing some actual research. Several things would convince me they at least were onto something.
1. Genetically trace mankind's lineage back to eight people who lived 4000 to 5000 years ago.
2. Show evidence of catastrophic plate movement. IE: tectonic plates that move inches per year could move miles per day as described by Baumgardner.
3. Produce Archaelogical data from the Sainai peninsula showing where 10's if not 100's of thousands of people dwelled anywhere during the course of the alleged 40 year exile.
There are many many other things Creationists could do to prove their case. These three would be the most dramatic especially number 1.
ID is a lost cause. Living systems show no true evidence of being designed (replication, efficiency, etc...)
Both camps demand evidence then poo poo the explanation they are given. This makes me believe they are not interested in being a viable alternate explanation. I think they are involved in a long term attempt to gain political power.
It was Lenin who said "Give me your children and the seed I plant shall never wither." That quote would be just as true if it read "Let us teach your children what to think and they will not believe anyone else."
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"In short, Intelligent Design is not alien to Islam. It is very much our cause, and we should do everything we can to support it. " --Mustafa Akyol Islamonline |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: BC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| admin wrote: | | Pete wrote: | | The problem with a lot of so-called scientific posters is that they fail to realize where science leaves off and atheistic thinking kicks in. They tend to think that science and atheism are joined at the hip. |
I haven't seen that... |
I've seen this idea plenty, but it's always creationists that think it - I believe that's why they rail so hard against any science that appears at first glance to confirm it (eg: evolution, big bang, radioactive dating...)
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Pete
Lion King
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 1019
Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: |
I've seen this idea plenty, but it's always creationists that think it - I believe that's why they rail so hard against any science that appears at first glance to confirm it (eg: evolution, big bang, radioactive dating...) |
Where does science confirm Big Bang, Singularity, or anything concerning how the universe began.
The only thing science confirms, is that there is no past eternity of matter, ergo, the universe had a beginning. The question is: how did it happen?
Atheists insist the universe just came into existence out of nothing; it just happened without a cause. |
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Bouncer
Alley Cat
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Pete wrote: | | Ana wrote: |
I've seen this idea plenty, but it's always creationists that think it - I believe that's why they rail so hard against any science that appears at first glance to confirm it (eg: evolution, big bang, radioactive dating...) |
Where does science confirm Big Bang, Singularity, or anything concerning how the universe began. |
I have to wonder, if you don't know why do you make the statement that follows?
| Quote: | The only thing science confirms, is that there is no past eternity of matter, ergo, the universe had a beginning. The question is: how did it happen?
Atheists insist the universe just came into existence out of nothing; it just happened without a cause. |
Actually that is a Creationist claim. Nothing about the Big Bang even suggests that once there was nothing and then there was something.
Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void..."
I would suggest you gain a much better understanding of what you are talking about before you go spouting off supposed 'facts' It does not educate anyone and it makes you look like you are ignorant.
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...do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, ... 1 John 4:1
Shouldn't that include the Bible? -- Bouncer
"In short, Intelligent Design is not alien to Islam. It is very much our cause, and we should do everything we can to support it. " --Mustafa Akyol Islamonline |
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Pete
Lion King
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 1019
Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Bouncer wrote: |
I would suggest you gain a much better understanding of what you are talking about before you go spouting off supposed 'facts' It does not educate anyone and it makes you look like you are ignorant. |
Enlighten me, Oh, wise one. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: BC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Pete wrote: |
Where does science confirm Big Bang, Singularity, or anything concerning how the universe began. |
This is what I'm talking about. The big bang theory isn't exactly put out by some atheist organization; it's a scientific theory. However, because of your inability to disentangle atheism from science in your mind, you have a problem with it, because what you really have a problem with is atheism.
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Pete
Lion King
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 1019
Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Ana, I have no problem with Atheism. It's unscientific nonsense - pure and simple! |
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Dust
Big Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 959
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| admin wrote: | | For me, being an "evolutionist" (which changed after much reading), I trust mainstream science and do not consider it to be some evil inside organization. |
We lost one!
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Dust
Big Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 959
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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admin,
Are you a theistic evolutionist or a atheistic evolutionist?
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The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. |
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Bouncer
Alley Cat
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Pete wrote: | | Bouncer wrote: |
I would suggest you gain a much better understanding of what you are talking about before you go spouting off supposed 'facts' It does not educate anyone and it makes you look like you are ignorant. |
Enlighten me, Oh, wise one. |
When did it become my job to enlighten you on things you claim to already know?
_________________
...do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, ... 1 John 4:1
Shouldn't that include the Bible? -- Bouncer
"In short, Intelligent Design is not alien to Islam. It is very much our cause, and we should do everything we can to support it. " --Mustafa Akyol Islamonline |
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