How Were People in the Old Testament Saved?

JB · Lion King Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 1075

GospelCompilation,

Ezekiel 2:2 (In the LXX) And the Spirit came upon me, and took me up, and raised me, and set me on my feet: and I heard him speaking to me. 3 And he said to me, Son of Man, I send thee forth to the house of Israel, them that provoke me; who have provoked me, they and their fathers to this day.

Let's start here. The Masoretic text was developed by Judaizers, The Old testament that you read has strong influencse towards that end.

The LXX is much more dependable. Since the Masoretic text was created from the LXX and other texts, I think it would be safer to consider the accuracy of the LXX over the other texts.

Ezekiel 3:24 (LXX) 24 Then the Spirit came upon me, and set me on my feet, and spoke to me, and said to me, Go in, and shut thyself up in the midst of thine house.

Genesis 41:38- And Pharao said to all his servants, Shall we find such a man as this, who has the Spirit of God in him?

I am not sure that the Pharoah would be able to discern whether The Spirit was upon or in. But we can pursue this one more.

'aher {ash-er'}
Word Origin:
a primitive relative pronoun (of every gender and number)

184 AV - which, wherewith, because, when, soon, whilst, as if, as when, that, until, much, whosoever, whereas, wherein, whom, whose

Usage in the KJV:
which 0, wherewith 0, because 0, when 0, soon 0, whilst 0, as if 0, as when 0, that 0, until 0, much 0, whosoever 0, whereas 0, wherein 0, whom 0, whose 0

Interestingly enough you will find that "in" doesn't even exist in that text in either the masoretic or the LXX Greek text but is added by the translators.

Numbers 27:18-
And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;

ruwach {roo'-akh}

Usage in the KJV:
Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4, vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6

spirit here in My Bible isn't capitalized. Since there are many different choices regarding the use of the spirit and not always necessarily speaking of the Holy Spirit one would have to make an assumption here.

The man ran into the burning hose to save the child from death. He was a man of great spirit. Ruwach was often times used in the context in the Old Testament.

JB

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 630

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 630

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 630

JB · Lion King Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 1075

JimD,

It is hard for me to spend alot of time on posts right now. This is the busy season for my business. So I apologize in advance for the slowness of my responses.

JB said:

Ezekiel 37 is a promise to Israel after the death and resurrection of Christ.

JimD said:

Do you not recognize that the true Israel is, was and always will be all the faithful.

That might me true. But this text is talking about the destruction of Israel and the Lord making Israel a Nation at a later time.

The Greek word diaspora is found in James 1:1. It means scattered or dispersed.

Around 600 BC the Babylonians attacked Israel and many were killed an others escaped. They pursued the Israelites into these outer lands but many still escaped harm. After this event the Medo-Persians attacked the souther tier of Israel. That was around 486 BC. Those who were left also were driven out of their land.

The valley of dry bones is a reference to this event and a promise to the physical Israelites (not the Church) who must be gathered together once again to become a nation. In 1948 Israel become a nation after 2400 years of being destroyed.

In Revelation we see the prophecy that there will be twelve tribes in Israel in the end times.

In Matthew 24 we see the promise of the fig tree blossoming. Israel was the fig tree and they play a crucial part in this end time event. hence the Holy Spirit brought together this nation as thing wind down.

Jim Ezekiel 37 has nothing to do with Spiritual Israel. It has to do with Physical Israel.

Another point that needs to be made here. Since this was a prophecy no one had any idea what Ezekiel was talking about. The Holy Spirit works often, among people, to bring about His will. Much of what the Lord does and is still doing in not recognized by human eyes or human hearts.

JB

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 630

JB thank you for your response but it need not be so long. I assume we are both familiar with bible history. I was just saying that I think you are totally confused on on this issue as well as the original. But of course I am interested in your opinion, keep digging, and sharing. Very Happy

_________________
Anyone can point out a scripture here and there and prove anything they want to believe, but good theology is understanding the message of the gospel as a whole. Sincerely, JimD

JB · Lion King Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 1075

JimD,

In my advanced theology class in college, I wrote my thesis on the Holy Spirit Old Testament and New. I Got an "A" on my work. My professor didn't think that I was confused. And Yep, I will Keep digging.

Your Christian Buddy

JB

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 630

JB · Lion King Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 1075

JimD,

I gave you a clear response to Ezekiel 37. This text in no way give you credence to your Old Testament view. As a matter of fact most scholarship disagrees with you on the Work of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament. They can't all be wrong.

So would you please Tell me how Ezekiel 37 agrees with your view. I would like to know.

70 AD has nothing to do with any thing. The Holy Spirit was given earlier than that. And not in the Old Testament.

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

JB

JB · Lion King Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 1075

JimD,

I have decided to not post any more on this subject. The only reason that I started was because GospelCompilation wanted to hear some of my ideas on the subject. You and I have gone through this before and we just don't agree. So I guess I have no more to say.

JB

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 630

beloved57 · Cobra Joined: 21 Mar 2007 Posts: 457

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 630

beloved57 · Cobra Joined: 21 Mar 2007 Posts: 457

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 630

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

57: This is the scripture that gets everyone confused, how do you interpret it?
_________________
Anyone can point out a scripture here and there and prove anything they want to believe, but good theology is understanding the message of the gospel as a whole. Sincerely, JimD