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steven Goldfish

Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 60 Location: California
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: Which Road Are You On? |
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Which Road Are You On?
"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." Matthew 16:24
There are many modern 'Christians' that espouse, whether openly or secretly, in lifestyle or in word, that the road to Heaven is paved with gold. Most modern 'Christian' fellowships have continued this fantasy by making sure that every possible level of comfort is achieved for their parishioners: from the ambient temperature of the assembly hall, to the perfect pitch of the singers; from the eye-pleasing decor, to the pleasant, floral scents in the bathrooms; from the fresh baked goods and hot coffee, to the artistic Sunday services for children... all the way to the smooth speech of the pastor, whom starts each sermon with a joke and finishes with a penitent smile.
But, the Truth is, the way to Heaven is the Via Dolorosa, the road of suffering. As Jesus said, we must deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him. This cross is not felicitous for the apathetic, modern "Christian": it bears many splinters and weighs heavily upon the shoulders of the flesh; it is cumbersome and is seen by many and reproached by many. The road of suffering is not pleasing and is full of condemnation. It is a road on which one denies himself of earthly pleasures, cutting off whatever gets in the way of serving Christ. The road is life-long and arduous, and is paved with the rocks of the Earth.
The road of suffering ends at Golgotha, where Christ meets us, bearing our sin and death for us, giving us eternal life in the Kingdom of God, where the roads are indeed paved with the purest gold. On that Day, we shall be reconciled to God once and for all, and those whom brought shame and reproach to the name of Christ shall be judged. For, those whom chose the broad, golden road of earthly ease and comfort, they shall suffer for Eternity in outer darkness where Jesus said "there is weeping and gnashing of teeth", because they were ashamed of Jesus and His Gospel.
Again, which road are you on? _________________ Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Act 20:21 |
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Pete Lion King
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 1019 Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Interesting that you should pose the question "Which road are you on?' without referencing Matt. 7:13-14.
"Enter ye in the strait (narrow) gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be that go in thereat:" V.14; "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Roman Catholics claim a worldwide membership of over a billion people. Protestants and other Trinitarian groups , make up to about another billion folks. I guess they are the "many there be that find it" along the "broad way."
It goes well beyond having physical comfort in the church pews, but involves being led into false churches like dumb sheep. That is, folks, like sheep, who are unwilling to think for themselves, but follow the lead of "authority" figures (wolves), and follow the mob.
The street sign above the wide road is marked "Trinity Avenue." |
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steven Goldfish

Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 60 Location: California
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Pete wrote: | Interesting that you should pose the question "Which road are you on?' without referencing Matt. 7:13-14.
"Enter ye in the strait (narrow) gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be that go in thereat:" V.14; "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Roman Catholics claim a worldwide membership of over a billion people. Protestants and other Trinitarian groups , make up to about another billion folks. I guess they are the "many there be that find it" along the "broad way."
It goes well beyond having physical comfort in the church pews, but involves being led into false churches like dumb sheep. That is, folks, like sheep, who are unwilling to think for themselves, but follow the lead of "authority" figures (wolves), and follow the mob.
The street sign above the wide road is marked "Trinity Avenue." |
Pete, speaking of Catholics, you may find this an interesting article, written by Keith Green many years ago:
http://www.informationgospel.net/forum/index.php?topic=79.0 _________________ Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Act 20:21 |
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ChristianWoman1 Labrador

Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 300
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Pete wrote: |
The street sign above the wide road is marked "Trinity Avenue." |
I disagree  _________________ ____________________
Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think.
ROMANS 12:2 |
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45degreeN King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 2673 Location: Salem Oregon
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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To follow the road analogy further.
The road to heaven comes down to us from heaven instead of going up from us to heaven. It is not "our road" at all but the road laid down by God and as such has many turns and bends. The old English word "straight" comes to us from the word for bound or restricted and doesn't mean literally without turns.
Anyone who claims that they know all the turns ahead of time (except God Himself) is demonstrating their ignorance of this road. God wants us in the end to be completely mature and well developed and traveling without turns leaves one immature and poorly developed.
Every day there is another chance to learn something new or attempt to try something new (these are the turns BTW), and if we reject these new things then we are rejecting the whole idea of maturing in the faith, those people remain babes in the faith needing to be fed milk rather than meat.
But every analogy comes to an end and this one can in fact be used far longer than it should. _________________ My boss is a Jewish carpenter.
Read the
www.Christian-Thinktank.com |
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Zathrus King Kong

Joined: 28 Aug 2002 Posts: 2273 Location: WI USA
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Which Road Are You On? |
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| steven wrote: | | This cross is not felicitous for the apathetic, modern "Christian": it bears many splinters and weighs heavily upon the shoulders of the flesh; it is cumbersome and is seen by many and reproached by many. | We sometimes tend to see the question of whether others are on the narrow path or the broad road in terms of one particular issue or teaching that happens to be dear to our hearts.
Let me ask this: What did the apostles writing to the early church define as the offense of the cross? What did they believe others found so offensive about it?
Who were the ones reproaching the early church?
Why did the cross weigh heavily upon the shoulders of the flesh of the early church?
What did the apostles who wrote the letters in the new testament consider to be the greatest temptation in terms of something that gratified the flesh and denied the cross? _________________ Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451 |
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Virbate Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008 Posts: 436
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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I think that the problem with the cross, which brings up the offense, is that people expect you to join them in their activities, which are not right. So they feel shunned when you hold to a higher standard.
I think the temptation to put down the cross is basically the same thing. We want to flow in the easy way, without paying our dues. This is the feeling we get when we take our eyes off the prize. |
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45degreeN King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 2673 Location: Salem Oregon
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: |
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a cross for one person is a talent for another. We shouldn't presume that everyone will have the same cross to bear.
God has the ability to offer us individual and unique crosses and talents and they will not of necessity be the same. _________________ My boss is a Jewish carpenter.
Read the
www.Christian-Thinktank.com |
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Plotinus Lion King

Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 1044 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| ChristianWoman1 wrote: | | Pete wrote: |
The street sign above the wide road is marked "Trinity Avenue." |
I disagree  |
I agree with ChristianWoman1. Please, my friend, reconsider your statement. This world has much more important ills to overcome than the "scourge" of trinitarianism. _________________ One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.
Heraclitus, fragment 45, quoted in Diogenes Laertius 9.7. |
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Plotinus Lion King

Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 1044 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| 45degreeN wrote: | To follow the road analogy further.
The road to heaven comes down to us from heaven instead of going up from us to heaven. It is not "our road" at all but the road laid down by God and as such has many turns and bends. The old English word "straight" comes to us from the word for bound or restricted and doesn't mean literally without turns.
.................
But every analogy comes to an end and this one can in fact be used far longer than it should. |
Yes. That does seem to be a fitting metaphor. Paul had to go to the street that is called straight on his path to God (Acts 9:11). Looking at the pictures (LINK) of this famous ancient street, one gets the feeling that bound or restricted is apt. _________________ One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.
Heraclitus, fragment 45, quoted in Diogenes Laertius 9.7. |
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GospelCompilation Grizzly Bear

Joined: 18 May 2008 Posts: 708 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Steven wrote: | | "But, the Truth is, the way to Heaven is the Via Dolorosa, the road of suffering. As Jesus said, we must deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him. This cross is not felicitous for the apathetic, modern "Christian": it bears many splinters and weighs heavily upon the shoulders of the flesh; it is cumbersome and is seen by many and reproached by many. The road of suffering is not pleasing and is full of condemnation. It is a road on which one denies himself of earthly pleasures, cutting off whatever gets in the way of serving Christ. The road is life-long and arduous, and is paved with the rocks of the Earth." |
My wife and I read this and were immediately struck with how negative it was. And our experience with God has been anything but negative. Sure, it has it's ups and downs, its hills and valleys... but journeying with our heavenly Father has been the greatest privilege and the most exciting adventure we've ever experienced.
So, we disagree with the above statement - because, as we see it, Scripture disagrees with it, and most definitely because our experience disagrees with it.
So my wife wants to ask, "Steven, has your walk with God been a difficult one? And, if it has been difficult, what specifically about your walk has made it so excruciating to endure?" |
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Pete Lion King
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 1019 Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Plotinus wrote: | | ChristianWoman1 wrote: | | Pete wrote: |
The street sign above the wide road is marked "Trinity Avenue." |
I disagree :? :roll: |
I agree with ChristianWoman1. Please, my friend, reconsider your statement. This world has much more important ills to overcome than the "scourge" of trinitarianism. |
Actually, the "many" in Matthew 7:13-14 does not mean "quite a lot", it means the "vast majority", or "overwhelming numbers".
When you view it in that context, who today, could that refer to outside of the Trinitarian churches? They represent about 90% of those who claim to be Christians. They are undeniably the "vast majority".
Trinitarianism has, from the onset, been responsible for most of this world's ills. |
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Virbate Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008 Posts: 436
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Pete, that's a non sequitur. I'm sure that there are many other possible groups of Christians it could refer to - an infinite number of possibilities of categories of people that have the same type of ratios you're talking about.
Of course, that doesn't take away from your overall point; I just want to point out that your last statement is a non sequitur - illogical. |
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Pete Lion King
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 1019 Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Virbate wrote: |
Of course, that doesn't take away from your overall point; I just want to point out that your last statement is a non sequitur - illogical. |
Not only has the Trinitarian Roman Church been responsible for untold human carnage, every nation that claims to be Christian has been invovled in wars and bloodshed amongst themselves for the last thousand years: Rome, Italy, British Empire, France, Germany, Poland, Norway, Spain, Greece, and the United States,you name it.
Illogical? I don't think so. |
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Virbate Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008 Posts: 436
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Okay. To each his own. |
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