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Joebob787
Rattlesnake
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 435
Location: Nj
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 Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: the science of fetus/abortion and what the bible says. |
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Exodus 21:22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows
If fetus isn't a baby yet, why would Moses put this into the law? He wouldn't of had to because the baby didn't technicallu exist yet.
Job 31:15 Did not he who made me in the womb make them?
Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?
As you can see, God made makes each one of us in the womb so we are killing God's Creation-in-the-making when people get an abortion.
Isaiah 49:1 Listen to me, you islands;
hear this, you distant nations:
Before I was born the LORD called me;
from my birth he has made mention of my name
Hear again, God knew Isaiah's name before he was even born so God already has given us a name before we are even out of the womb yet.
The science Behind Fetus.
At 9 weeks old, the fetus may feel pain and has a Heart beating. The body starts stimulating breathing motions so the lungs can develop.
At around 15 weeks, Red blood cell are start to produce in the Liver. The Genitals start to form showing. The toes start to bud and The fetus starts to have skin.
At 25 weeks, the Fetus can start to move and Kick. Hair starts to form on the body's skin. The nervous system starts to form.
At 38th week or 9 Month, Body fat starts to produce. Brain connections start to work. Head hair starts to form
Birth normally occurs here.
When does Normal Abortion Happen? Around week 20. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| Joebob787 wrote: | Exodus 21:22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows
If fetus isn't a baby yet, why would Moses put this into the law? He wouldn't of had to because the baby didn't technicallu exist yet. |
Because babies were considered property.
| Joebob787 wrote: | Job 31:15 Did not he who made me in the womb make them?
Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?
As you can see, God made makes each one of us in the womb so we are killing God's Creation-in-the-making when people get an abortion. |
So? You do the same if you eat a fertilized egg, unless chickens don't need God's help to make babies and we do for some reason.
| Joebob787 wrote: | Isaiah 49:1 Listen to me, you islands;
hear this, you distant nations:
Before I was born the LORD called me;
from my birth he has made mention of my name
Hear again, God knew Isaiah's name before he was even born so God already has given us a name before we are even out of the womb yet. |
... That's not at all what it says. It says "from my birth he has made mention of my name" not "from before my birth he has made mention of my name." How would you even come to the conclusion that God has named us before we're born from this passage? How would you come to the conclusion that this passage was about humans as a whole and not Isaiah alone?
| Joebob787 wrote: | | The science Behind Fetus. |
| Joebob787 wrote: | At 9 weeks old, the fetus may feel pain and has a Heart beating. The body starts stimulating breathing motions so the lungs can develop.
At around 15 weeks, Red blood cell are start to produce in the Liver. The Genitals start to form showing. The toes start to bud and The fetus starts to have skin.
At 25 weeks, the Fetus can start to move and Kick. Hair starts to form on the body's skin. The nervous system starts to form.
At 38th week or 9 Month, Body fat starts to produce. Brain connections start to work. Head hair starts to form
Birth normally occurs here. |
Let's see how these claims stack up to reality, shall we?
The heart starts beating in the 18th week. The breathing movements don't start until Week 31. Red blood cells start forming in the liver weeks 9-12. The genitals also appear during this time, not at 15 weeks. Toes are week 7. The fetus starts moving in weeks 13-16; to the point that it's detectable by the mother typically in week 19. Hair follicles form in week 7 with hair on the head developing in weeks 13-16. You're only short by a week or two on when the nervous system forms, but how can you claim that the nervous system forms at 25 weeks but the fetus can feel pain at 9 without it? And without brain connections to pick up sensory input like, you know, pain (which is week 31 anyway)? Body fat gets produced at least as early as week 31 and hair more or less finishes growing in the 38th week after starting in weeks 13-16.
So, basically, you were only right about when the nervous system actually starts to develop. That's pretty bad considering that this information isn't in any way hidden.
| Joebob787 wrote: | | When does Normal Abortion Happen? Around week 20. |
In the US all but about 1% of abortions happen within the first 20 weeks, with most in the first nine weeks. Only about 3.3% happen in weeks 16-20.
So why would you make this claim?
Eesh. For actual factual statistics, read this.
Basically, your theological claims are suspect at best and pretty much all of your real-world claims are simply false. That's quite an achievement.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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ChristianWoman1
Labrador
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 300
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:27 am Post subject: |
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"before I formed you in the womb I knew you" Jer.1:5
Every breath in me is pro-life 
_________________
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Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think.
ROMANS 12:2 |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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You can use that verse if you want to claim that sort of thing for Jeremiah or at best prophets. There's no indication it applies to anyone else.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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ChristianWoman1
Labrador
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 300
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | You can use that verse if you want to claim that sort of thing for Jeremiah or at best prophets. There's no indication it applies to anyone else. |
well if what you said is true then why believe even half of what the bible says bc I don't see my name Barb in there even once 
God didn't give us the bible to confuse us or leave us guessing, "is this message for me?" 
_________________
____________________
Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think.
ROMANS 12:2 |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ChristianWoman1 wrote: | | well if what you said is true then why believe even half of what the bible says bc I don't see my name Barb in there even once |
You can believe that Jeremiah was known by God before he was even conceived and be perfectly consistent. To make that claim for everyone is going far, far beyond what the text is saying. You're making a strawman out of my argument.
| ChristianWoman1 wrote: | | God didn't give us the bible to confuse us or leave us guessing, "is this message for me?" |
Well, why would you assume that that message was for (or about) you and not simply about Jeremiah's validity as a prophet?
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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ChristianWoman1
Labrador
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 300
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | ChristianWoman1 wrote: | | well if what you said is true then why believe even half of what the bible says bc I don't see my name Barb in there even once |
You can believe that Jeremiah was known by God before he was even conceived and be perfectly consistent. To make that claim for everyone is going far, far beyond what the text is saying. You're making a strawman out of my argument.
| ChristianWoman1 wrote: | | God didn't give us the bible to confuse us or leave us guessing, "is this message for me?" |
Well, why would you assume that that message was for (or about) you and not simply about Jeremiah's validity as a prophet? |
I have no reason to believe this verse was not for me...just as all scripture is for every believer.
_________________
____________________
Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think.
ROMANS 12:2 |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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That's fine. But there's no scriptural justification to say it does and then use that as an argument.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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