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JimD
Young Wolf
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 510
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 Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Think about it, if your son was willing to die for the sins of his friends, would you forsake him? On the contrary would you love him all the more! PRAISE GOD!
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Anyone can point out a scripture here and there and prove anything they want to believe, but good theology is understanding the message of the gospel as a whole. Sincerely, JimD |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2269
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Oh there's no denying God was well pleased with His Son. Interesting points, Jim D.
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Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
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JimD
Young Wolf
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 510
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Zathrus: What scriptural authority do we have for believing God would forsake Jesus. I have a study coming up Thursday on this subject and I need all the input I can get. any help you can give, pro or con would be appreciated.
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Anyone can point out a scripture here and there and prove anything they want to believe, but good theology is understanding the message of the gospel as a whole. Sincerely, JimD |
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Joebob787
Rattlesnake
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 435
Location: Nj
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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When Jesus was on the Cross, He said
Matthew 27:45-47
45From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land. 46About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,[c] lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
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Romans 1:16a I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1501
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Joebob787 wrote: | When Jesus was on the Cross, He said
Matthew 27:45-47
45From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land. 46About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,[c] lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" |
Who is the person (persons?) that Jesus called "my God"? |
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Joebob787
Rattlesnake
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 435
Location: Nj
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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I would have to say YHWH
_________________
Romans 1:16a I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1501
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Joebob787 wrote: | | I would have to say YHWH |
YHWH (the Father) is Jesus' God. That, I suggest, is an affirmation of Jewish unitary monotheism. |
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Joebob787
Rattlesnake
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 435
Location: Nj
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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But how do you explain the Prophecy in Isaiah that calls Jesus Mighty God and Everlasting Father. The Father is YHWH, but it clearly says Jesus is.
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, [b] Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
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Romans 1:16a I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1501
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Joebob787 wrote: | | But how do you explain the Prophecy in Isaiah that calls Jesus Mighty God and Everlasting Father. |
Have you consulted a Hebrew Lexicon? "Mighty God" is not the same as "Almighty God."
Jesus is the father of the age to come.
| Quote: | | The Father is YHWH, but it clearly says Jesus is. |
I don't think it says that at all. When I return home tomorrow evening I'll post comments from Trinitarian scholars who have conceded this point.
Trinitarians do not believe that Jesus is the Father. |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5150
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Ghost.
But Jesus is not the Father.
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Much Love Nobby
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Joebob787
Rattlesnake
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 435
Location: Nj
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:56 am Post subject: |
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I think i missed the question.
Are you asking if God the Son is God the Father? If so, Than i do not believe so. I think i miss read the Question as Is Jesus God the son. Sorry about that.
_________________
Romans 1:16a I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1501
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| Joebob787 wrote: | I think i missed the question.
Are you asking if God the Son is God the Father? If so, Than i do not believe so. I think i miss read the Question as Is Jesus God the son. Sorry about that. |
The title "Everlasting Father" is applied to the Messiah in the Isaiah passage. I was simply pointing out that it does not mean that Jesus is God.
If "Everlasting Father" isn't equivalent to "God the Father" (as we apparently agree it isn't) then what does the title mean? I have sugested that it means that the Messiah is the father of the age to come. He is the author of a new creation. |
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Mattathias
King of the Jungle
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1501
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| Nobby wrote: | God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Ghost.
But Jesus is not the Father. |
That would be the Trinity. Since Trinitarians do not believe that Jesus is the Father, they agree that the title "Everlasting Father" must be a reference to something else. (Modalists, however, equate the titles.) |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2269
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| JimD wrote: | | Zathrus: What scriptural authority do we have for believing God would forsake Jesus. I have a study coming up Thursday on this subject and I need all the input I can get. any help you can give, pro or con would be appreciated. |
This is getting a bit off the topic of the thread, which is "Is Jesus YWH?".
How about if we move this to the Bible doctrine forum?
I didin't have time last night to sit down and search scriptures on this or anything, but one verse did come to mind, and I'll open a thread in the Doctrine forum and we can start a discussion on it.
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451 |
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JimD
Young Wolf
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 510
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Zathrus said:
I didin't have time last night to sit down and search scriptures on this or anything, but one verse did come to mind, and I'll open a thread in the Doctrine forum and we can start a discussion on it |
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Sounds good, I have checked many resources including prayer, and have not come up with anything except my original gut feeling that God would not forsake anyone who was trying to do his will. Thank you for any help you can provide.
_________________
Anyone can point out a scripture here and there and prove anything they want to believe, but good theology is understanding the message of the gospel as a whole. Sincerely, JimD |
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