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Ha lelu Yah'
Little Goldfish
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 51
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 Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Virbate wrote: | | Since I have agreed to your condition of saying what I say by referring to the Bible, should you still require me to perform miracles? |
You say you have agreed to my condition to which I reply: “Actions speak louder than words.” Or in other words, you may claim and even think you have agreed but you have yet to act on it, at least in any consistent, sufficient and satisfying way, and your lack of action is speaking so much louder than your above stated claim of agreement.
YES!! I do require miracles of you. The only reason I say that is because it is going to be a miracle if you actually do stop discombobulating and actually do start using un-convoluted, conventional, straight-forward and therefore easily understandable language to make your points and then back up whatever it is that you claim, advocate and say by actually providing what I have requested.
| Virbate wrote: | | He is revealing it. |
Are you privy to some special, “personal” revelation that the rest of us mere mortals are not?? If so then please say so. If not then please SHOW ME, as I have repeatedly requested, in Jesus’ actions and words whatever it is that you are claiming, advocating, saying in this thread that you do or that I should do.
| Virbate wrote: | | The fact that I am presenting a single, cohesive doctrine that ties all of this together |
That statement as a description of what you have said and how you have said it is an oxymoron if ever I heard one.
| Virbate wrote: | | . . . if you think of it I'm sure you know many scriptures that speak of these things. |
No as a matter of fact I do not. And even if I did I am not going to let you off the hook that easily nor am I going to start doing for you what you should be doing for me.
I seriously doubt that you have even one single thing to say that can be proved as I have requested and yet what I have requested is the standard that all Christians should insist upon with regard to everything they believe and try to live up to in everything they do.
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By iron, iron itself is sharpened. So one man sharpens the face of another. (Proverbs 27:17) |
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RevJP
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Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6908
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: |
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_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Virbate
Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: |
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I showed you that Jesus spoke in an unconventional way, in such a way that a listener is forced to dig beneath the surface, in order to contemplate the subject Jesus had for him to contemplate. What are your thoughts on this claim?
As far as me being privy to the word of truth, in a way that is not popularly taught, it is true that I am, in the following sense:
God has clarified in this time, through the power of Jesus and the ministry of the Holy Spirit, that His kingdom involves a complete paradigm shift, and a new language based on a new predicate system.
That predicate is the Gospel, and the new language is the manifesto of His kingdom. I am not teaching anything new, just a more complete, fulfilled revelation concerning what has already been taught during Jesus' ministry on earth, and through the apostles.
The fact is that you haven't heard yet what I have to say because you're still caught up in the words that I use. When you realized that this was about a misunderstanding, you said that I wasted your time and was wrong for not speaking in "conventional terms". However I showed you that Jesus did the same thing, and explained that convention must be changed for a revolution. You cannot change and stay the same. Change requires change.
Now you are saying that I didn't refer to Jesus. |
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RevJP
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Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6908
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The fact is that you haven't heard yet what I have to say |
I've been waiting for you to say something meaningful. When might that happen exactly?
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Virbate
Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | The fact is that you haven't heard yet what I have to say |
I've been waiting for you to say something meaningful. When might that happen exactly? |
What were your thoughts on my first post RevJP?
Here it is again: | Vibrate wrote: | Every secular government on earth today claims to operate in the name of the people, which we know they do not. I believe that it is time that God's people learn to use these false claims to our advantage, to take what is rightfully ours.
Examine the structure of institutions and offices established by these false regimes, and you will see that there only true authority is the might of arms. They have no moral authority, and they do not have the voice of the people behind them, but the people live in fear so they do not speak out. This is the reality around the world today.
Because those who hold office have stolen their positions, their rulings are not valid, because they are pretenders to the "thrones" that they occupy. In fact, only God's people are the true and rightful law-givers. The laws that are called "laws" today are by and large false, and the enforcement that is called "law enforcement" is as well. Judges hand down verdicts without understanding anything that is going on, just because of their greed.
There is only one true law, and that is the word of God, and the word of God is spoken only by those who know Him, or by those who have been taught by those who know Him. The true church is the only civil authority in the world today. Check the documents and constitutions of any established regime and you'll see that it is so.
What is needed today is only one thing: that we who know God rise up and take our rightful positions as rulers in truth. The reason why injustice is so widespread is that the people who are ruling the world don't know that the world is in their care. They have been taught to think that the system runs itself, and in fact because of this false teaching they continue, by and large, to let the system run itself. So there is chaos. But all we have to do is take a stand, and take up our rightful position.
Don't be afraid to run the world, and don't be afraid of the bluster of the politicians and their stooges, the officers who pretend to be the representatives of true order. These are renegade criminals, and nothing more. They are impostors.
A lot of impostors speaking from pulpits, and the media as well. You can know them by what they say, if you are able to discern the truth. |
Are you saying there is no meaning in all of that? Do you mean that it is too obvious to be worth mentioning, or that you disagree, or what? Please explain your views. Have you understood the point, first of all? I have put the red parts, which state my central thesis on this thread, for easier reading. |
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RevJP
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Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6908
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Actually I found it to be meandering and loquacious, and any meaning you might have tried to convey was lost in the mix. Perhaps you could use less words to make your point?
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Virbate
Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:49 am Post subject: |
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In summary:
The system by which most people think about power in the world is an illusion. Power does not really work that way. People think that power belongs to organizations and institutions, such as countries, regimes, etc. For this reason, people usually think in terms of those organizations and institutions.
However the truth is that all power begins with the people. Therefore the correct way for us to think is in terms of people.
God's word is meant to govern all human society. But this can only be realized when those who know God's word are able to organize and centralize in an effective way, to establish a practical form of government in His name and according to His way. In order to organize and centralize, we must reject the old way of thinking of power in terms of secular organizations and institutions. We must instead learn to think in real terms about the power structure.
Therefore, I declare that the Church of God is the only legitimate, real organization in creation, and that any claim to authority outside of the Church is a non-entity.
Any thoughts, or still not intelligible?
Last edited by Virbate on Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RevJP
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Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6908
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: |
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You described an assessment of a condition, and suggested that it be changed.
What now?
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Virbate
Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Sorry about that. I was editing while you were responding. I'm done now though. Will try not to do that again. But I think I answered your question in the edit. Please let me know if you feel I have said something now? If so, what are your views?
Of course, I have much more to say, this is meant to be just the first statement of a whole thread. |
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RevJP
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Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6908
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: |
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I've read your edit and my last post still stands.
For the record, if you intend on continuing this thread perhaps you can move to something tangible in terms of what we can do and how we can do it?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Virbate
Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | You described an assessment of a condition, and suggested that it be changed.
For the record, if you intend on continuing this thread perhaps you can move to something tangible in terms of what we can do and how we can do it? |
Thanks RevJP. You're right on track! Something tangible is exactly what we need to talk about, and the purpose for this thread. The answer is an entire system, which is the full Gospel of God. Note that Jesus told us to teach the Gospel to every living thing. This is a whole tradition that we are supposed to live by, and teach.
First and foremost, by studying nature together, within the context of God's word, to learn the truth about where we are, who we are, and how the world really works, we can empower ourselves.
Secondly, stemming from this, we must organize ourselves into specific campaigns and activities to make use of the existing power structure. Note that evangelists have learned to use radio and tv, and now are using the internet. This is the result of applying the above principle, but there is so much more to be done.
In all things, we must learn to be grounded in the faith, and to bring all institutions and all society under the umbrella of the faith. Above all, we must no longer thing of ourselves as outsiders, camping out in the world. We must realize that we are the rightful owners of this place, and we must take a stand publicly and without apology, to stake and enforce our claim. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6908
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Above all, we must no longer thing of ourselves as outsiders, camping out in the world. We must realize that we are the rightful owners of this place, and we must take a stand publicly and without apology, to stake and enforce our claim. |
Doesn't this run contrary to God's Word?
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Virbate
Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | Above all, we must no longer thing of ourselves as outsiders, camping out in the world. We must realize that we are the rightful owners of this place, and we must take a stand publicly and without apology, to stake and enforce our claim. |
Doesn't this run contrary to God's Word? |
No it doesn't. God says we should not think as the world things, in carnal terms. So as far as not thinking in carnal terms, as the world things, we are in the world but not of the world. It is very unfortunate that the Catholic church and others read this to say that we should are not meant to be owners of the world.
Check in the creation story, and you'll see that we are meant to have dominion over the earth. Throughout the Bible God is described as Sovereign. Countless prophecies declare that the Messiah will rule the world.
I am saying, separate from the world's thinking, since it is false. But know that God is the true Sovereign, and take your rightful place as ruler of the earth. This is what has been prophesied. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6908
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | No it doesn't. God says we should not think as the world things, in carnal terms |
can you support this? I don't see anything that supports this notion.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Virbate
Rattlesnake
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | No it doesn't. God says we should not think as the world things, in carnal terms |
can you support this? I don't see anything that supports this notion. |
Well that was a typo, should have been "as the world thinks".
I'm not sure what's going on here. You're saying that you believe God wants people to think as the world thinks? You're disagreeing with my claim that God wants us to think in a different way? |
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