Logical consequences of realized eschatology

Zathrus

Looks like some of the posts that went up in the few days before the board went down are gone. Fortunately I still had this one saved on my computer!

Someone on the forum asked:

Zathrus · Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:53 am Post subject:

Another logical consequence of seeing eschatological hopes as realized in the redemptive plan of God:

It has seemed to me for a long time as though prophetic events that were to be fulfilled in our future, in the end times, were almost a separate and distinct plan of God from His plan of salvation which He completed through Jesus Christ. The only tie between them was that whether one was judged or obtained eternal life in this end time plan was determined by whether one accepted God's plan of salvation.

It seemed that 2000 years ago, our savior died for our sins and rose again, and the good news of His atoning sacrifice has been preached since then. And then, sometime in our future, always just around the corner, all these events were supposed to begin happening - a world dictator coming to power, the removal of all believers who'd accepted Jesus, 144,000 Jewish men preaching Jesus as savior, communist Russia invading Israel, economic and political chaos... - only related to the salvation story by the fact that we who believe in Jesus as savior were supposed to come through all this or be spared from all this and be taken to heaven, and those did not believe the gospel would be judged.

Covenant eschatology sees a more coherent, deliberate, directed plan of God for man's salvation. Christ died to begin the new covenant in His blood, rose victorious over death, and returned to bring a final end to the old covenant of the law and forever establish this new covenant of grace and peace. There is a unity of purpose to this understanding.

Premillenial and other futurist schemes have the purpose of God's plan of salvation being to save man, and then the purpose of His end time plan being to bring our planet to an end, judge all the wicked and unbelieving, and take the saved to heaven. Two almost separate, only tangentially related plans.

Covenant eschatology acknowleges that the plan of God, from the time of the fall from the garden, was to restore fellowship with man by taking away the sin that brought separation. God's plan was worked out in sending His Son who died for our sins, rose again victorious, sent His disciples to proclaim the news of salvation gathering in all who would believe, and then completing that one and same work of reconciliation by bringing an end to the covenant of the law and establishing Christ's kingdom of grace and peace forever.
God had one plan only, with one very clear purpose. He worked toward this one purpose singleheartedly.

It just seems in comparison with understanding that the one thing that was on God's heart was to again walk in fellowship with man, futurist end time theories seem meandering, convoluted, only distantly related to God's plan of salvation, and void of a very clear purpose on God's part.

Joebob787 · Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject:

The reason who all the Chaos and Devistation in the Revelation is because right now, God is trying to get man to repent through the use of love and mercy. When Love and mercy no longer work, he has to use something else. Super Miracles. Demon armies running on the earth, demonic bugs, Meteoirs, Shorting of the days, Oceans to blood, Pitch black in europe. All miracles that will be trying to get man to repent.

The reason for the punishment in the Millenial kingdom is because it is suppose to be Heaven on earth. Since, No sin in heaven, their will be no sin in the 1000 year kingdom.The point being, Christians before the tribulation and the Rapture will have their new bodys so they wouldn't be able to sin. But, Christians that are saved in the tribulation will still have their old bodys.
They will still be able to have kids and those kids will need to be saved.

Zathrus · Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:09 am Post subject:

Exactly what I'm talking about.

The Revelation does not seem nearly as chaotic when it is understood as being a book showing how all the old testament eschatological prophecies were fullfilled by Jesus Christ. It is, after all, the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Don Fisher · Little Guppy Joined: 17 Jun 2008 Posts: 31

I think both the totally preterist and the totally futurist views of eschatology in general, and The Revelation in particular, fall short. As with many other doctrines there are passages which cannot be forced into a single, all-encompassing viewpoint without doing some damage to them.

Zathrus · Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:34 am Post subject:

Pleased to meet you, Don. So you are a historicist? Partial preterist?

Don Fisher · Little Guppy Joined: 17 Jun 2008 Posts: 31

Hello Zathrus,

I'm always a bit wary of labels, since in my experience they are usually given to me by others, and typically are assigned in order to pigeon-hole me for future disagreements (not implying that's what you are doing, just explaining my reluctance to wear any of the buttons you've suggested).

What I try to do is determine the meaning of relevant scriptures on a given topic, whether it's end times or divorce and remarriage, and then explain my reasons for seeing it that way. Over the years I've found that, in this area of eschatology, such a practice makes me partial-preterist in the eyes of some, futurist in the eyes of others, and historicist to still others!

I'm sure you'd agree that it's important to test all theological systems (whatever they may be labeled) by the Word of God. I think it's also worth remembering that when the teaching of God's Word is systematized, something is quite frequently left out in the process.

That said, I would be quite content to just label myself as an evangelical who believes in the return of Christ to this earth, the very place where he was rejected and crucified, and where he will ultimately receive universal recognition as Lord and King.