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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 438
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 Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | And we are told that the law shall not pass away until ALL Things are fulfilled. So I'm looking for ALL Things..  |
As far as I know all things are fulfilled in Christ, except those who are not accepting the Gospel, they are still under the law as far as I can tell. |
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nana
Bear Cub
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 625
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Greetings JimD,
| Quote: | JimD wrote:
Let me ask you, did a literal interpretation of Gods word reveal this to you, or the Spirit?
Please do not misunderstand, literal is good but we must leave room for the Spirit, right? I am not referring to hearing literal voices here. |
The Word of truth or the revelation of the truth can only be revealed by the Spirit. A literal reading would be interpreted according to the flesh.
John 6:63, "It is the Sprit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
Jesus said before he went to the cross:
John 4:23-24, "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24) God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
No longer is the OT way of worship accepted. The true worshipers MUST worship God in Spirit and in truth.
In Christ, Judy |
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nana
Bear Cub
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 625
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hi lone and all,
| Quote: | Quote:
Lone said:
Before Jesus..what were they sacrificing to God? |
Malachi 1:12-14 says it best:
"But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the Lord is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible.
13) Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the Lord of hosts; and ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the Lord.
14) But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the Lord of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen."
The OT sacrifices were a shadow of Christ and his sacrifice to come. When they brought sickly and lame animals to the altar they polluted his table. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| JimD wrote: | | Quote: | | And we are told that the law shall not pass away until ALL Things are fulfilled. So I'm looking for ALL Things.. |
As far as I know all things are fulfilled in Christ, except those who are not accepting the Gospel, they are still under the law as far as I can tell. |
Hi JimD,
and yet we are still under the law of liberty..the law of love.
Jesus said..
Thou shalt love God with all thy heart mind and soul and strength..and thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two hangs all the law and the prophets.
Now the law that hangs on these two should not have any unrighteousness in it, unless it was added to or deleted from or changed.
The spiritual law is written in the law itself but it's been hmm muddied.
David says:
Psa 119:97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it [is] my meditation all the day.
Psa 119:98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they [are] ever with me.
Psa 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies [are] my meditation.
Psa 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.
Psa 119:101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.
Psa 119:102 I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.
Psa 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! [yea, sweeter] than honey to my mouth!
Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Like I showed with the stoning..and how it originated in Egypt and was adopted into the law..the traditions and ordinances of other nations..
and yet God put in there a place of escape..do not do as the other nations do..but they didn't hear that..they heard that stoning was good and not evil.
What law was David meditating on that he loved so?
surely he could see the straight path in it and was not led in the crooked path..the false way.
Psa 119:93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.
Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
what is quickened?
chayah
Pronunciation
khä·yä' (Key)
1) to live, have life, remain alive, sustain life, live prosperously, live for ever, be quickened, be alive, be restored to life or health
If the law leads to death then how can the precepts restore to life, or revive or restore to health?
there has to be something in there they missed.
And I'm not afraid of missing it, I know the gospel. I know Jesus fulfilled the law and that to love one another fulfills the law..but there are precepts and statues and judgments that hang on the first two that according to David quickens or restores or heals..
And not that we haven't been quickened and restored or healed..
I just want to find them in it..
why would we be told to seek if there was nothing to find?
why would we be told to knock if there was nothing left to open?
and why would we be told to ask if all the questions were already answered?
I know ultimately Jesus fulfilled the law..I'm just looking at the parts in particular..
I'm looking at this with a "positive" attitude k?
I know there's good in it. And I know Jesus came to keep it. And we are told to keep the commandments too.
So I'm trying to scrape the mud off and see the light in it.
I'm seeking, and knocking, and asking.. 
Psa 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
You know when Jesus says..it is written in your law..
but I say...
I'm looking in the law for what the Lord say..and not what they said it said...know what I mean?
1Cr 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].
God said..I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil..choose life..
The law is the temptation, the proving ground to see if they would listen or not..
so for every temptation in the law to be judge and jury and accuser ..there is a way of escaping that condemnation of breaking the law by keeping it.
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself is the escape route for stoning someone for picking up sticks on the sabbath day..there is always an escape from temptation.
and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil..
it's in there..
anywhooooo....
hugs
lone |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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hi nana
"But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the Lord is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible.
for example..
this is where I "exchange" the physical for the spiritual..
the fruit and his meat is contemptable..
now when I read fruit..I think..peace, joy, mercy, goodness, you know the fruits of the spirit..
and his meat is truth, justice, righteous judgment..
and these they call contemptable..
They say the table of the Lord is polluted because there is good in it.
what they see as torn and lame and sick, God sees as humble and contrite spirits, the meek who will inherit the earth.
just how I see it..
hugs
lone |
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nana
Bear Cub
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 625
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Hi lone,
lone wrote:
| Quote: | | what they see as torn and lame and sick, God sees as humble and contrite spirits, the meek who will inherit the earth. |
You gave a beautiful example of the fruits of the spirit but, if I may be so bold, this verse is lacking.
The Jews were sacrificing at the altar the inferior of their flocks, culls. If they would have sacrificed the very best of their flocks they would have been considered contrite and of a humble spirit, but no, they did not think that God was seeing them and were sacrificing culls, wounded and sick sheep that were of no worth. They could not sell them, they were worthy of no more than to be thrown in a ditch.
Only a fool would think that God could not see them or expose their greed. A perfect lamb could produce and bring substance to their flock. The resentment of bringing their very best to be burned on the altar of God they refused to do.
Thank God that He offered upon his spiritual altar His very best, His only begotten Son. There was no greed with God, only mercy and Grace.
In Christ, Judy |
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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | [quote="nana"]Greetings JimD,
| Quote: | JimD wrote:
Let me ask you, did a literal interpretation of Gods word reveal this to you, or the Spirit?
Please do not misunderstand, literal is good but we must leave room for the Spirit, right? I am not referring to hearing literal voices here. |
Nana said:
The Word of truth or the revelation of the truth can only be revealed by the Spirit. A literal reading would be interpreted according to the flesh.
John 6:63, "It is the Sprit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
Jesus said before he went to the cross:
John 4:23-24, "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24) God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." |
Nana, this is beautiful, thank you so much, this one is going in my Nana file. |
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Bible Believing Christian
Not So Newbie
Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: Is the Sabbath Saturday or Sunday? |
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I heard a minister say there was no biblical basis for going to church on Sunday? and so far, I haven't found it in the Bible.
Can someone tell me where the text is, where God says, I have changed the day of worship from the seventh day to the first day?
The Old testament says "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Ex. 20:8
But i can't find in the Old or New testament where he says "Remember I changed the Sabbath Day from the seventh to the first.
Where is it found? |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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ok,
I'll try again..
Here is a prime example of the kinds of things I'm looking at:
Law:
Deu 25:4 ¶ Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out [the corn].
Intepretation:
1Cr 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Cr 9:10 Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
So I now see ox in the old testament as those who plow in hope..
now this one takes care of the ox as well as the enemy:
Exd 23:4 If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again.
and I see here the golden rule at work..do unto others as you would have done unto you.
again I see this verse referring to those here:
Mar 9:38 ¶ And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. hmm..the enemy..
Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
even the enemies ox can plow in hope.
just sharing some thoughts..
hugs
lone
Hi BBC,
God never changed the sabbath..It's how it's supposed to be observed that's in question.
The law says ye shall not do your works in it..
But in the prophets it says we are to do the works of God in it.
And I believe that the Sabbath day is the day of grace in which we are now..and we are to work the works of him who sent us just as he was sent.
To Day if ye will hear his voice ..today..
and we are where Jesus is and Jesus has entered into rest..he is in the sabbath day and so are we.
Jhn 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Hbr 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Isa 57:2 He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, [each one] walking [in] his uprightness.
Jhn 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
hugs BBC,
and nice to meet you
lone |
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JB
Young Wolf
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 514
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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BBC,
One of the greatest gifts that God has given us is other Christians. Gathering with the saints is a good idea and I do think that the scriptures might say something about that.
(Hebrews 10) Forsake not the assembling of ourselves together such as is the practice of many.
The Church is the Ecclesia and the scriptures talks much about the Ecclesia or the gather of the saints. You miss out on the greater blessing if yoiu walk your Christian walk in isolation.
JB |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| nana wrote: | Hi lone,
lone wrote:
| Quote: | | what they see as torn and lame and sick, God sees as humble and contrite spirits, the meek who will inherit the earth. |
You gave a beautiful example of the fruits of the spirit but, if I may be so bold, this verse is lacking.
The Jews were sacrificing at the altar the inferior of their flocks, culls. If they would have sacrificed the very best of their flocks they would have been considered contrite and of a humble spirit, but no, they did not think that God was seeing them and were sacrificing culls, wounded and sick sheep that were of no worth. They could not sell them, they were worthy of no more than to be thrown in a ditch.
Only a fool would think that God could not see them or expose their greed. A perfect lamb could produce and bring substance to their flock. The resentment of bringing their very best to be burned on the altar of God they refused to do.
Thank God that He offered upon his spiritual altar His very best, His only begotten Son. There was no greed with God, only mercy and Grace.
In Christ, Judy |
AH..
thankyou nana..
I see that..
that's why we are told not to judge by appearances..
hugs nana
lone |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| JB wrote: | BBC,
One of the greatest gifts that God has given us is other Christians. Gathering with the saints is a good idea and I do think that the scriptures might say something about that.
(Hebrews 10) Forsake not the assembling of ourselves together such as is the practice of many.
The Church is the Ecclesia and the scriptures talks much about the Ecclesia or the gather of the saints. You miss out on the greater blessing if yoiu walk your Christian walk in isolation.
JB |
Amen JB!
and I am extremely grateful for being able to assemble with all of you, everyday. It is a great blessing indeed..
hugs
lone |
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nana
Bear Cub
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 625
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Dear BBC Bible Believing Christian,
BBC wrote:
| Quote: | I heard a minister say there was no biblical basis for going to church on Sunday? and so far, I haven't found it in the Bible.
Can someone tell me where the text is, where God says, I have changed the day of worship from the seventh day to the first day?
The Old testament says "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Ex. 20:8
But i can't find in the Old or New testament where he says "Remember I changed the Sabbath Day from the seventh to the first.
Where is it found? |
The reason you cannot find it is because it is not there.
The NT change the way of worship from the law of the Sabbath to worshipping God in the Spirit.
John 4:23-24, "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24) God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
No longer is the OT way of worship accepted. The true worshipers MUST worship God in Spirit and in truth.
The seventh day was the Sabbath in the OT and to worship God you had to worship him on the Sabbath, but when Christ fulfilled the Law we entered into the rest by faith and if we walk in the faith everyday is the Sabbath.
Hebrews 4:1-3, "Let us therefore fear, lest a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2) For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them (of the OT): but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3) For we which have believed do enter into rest..."
In Christ, Judy |
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Bible Believing Christian
Not So Newbie
Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Yes friends
I agree and thank you for the welcome. And if it were up to me, personally, I say assemble and worship God every day.
But according to the Bible, God only mentions one "Day" to keep holy.
We could and can assemble and worship God on any and every "Day".
But we can only keep one "Day" holy.
Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy. Ex.20:8 which also happens to be the fourth commandment.
Yes, the Sabbath is a day of rest, in "Spirit" and the seventh day is the Sabbath in "truth"
Again I don't have a problem worshiping on any day, However Jesus says. "If you love me, keep my commandments. John 15:10
If God truly commands us to keep the seventh day holy , why do we keep the first day holy? |
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Bible Believing Christian
Not So Newbie
Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Where in the New Testament is there a change of the Day made?
The "Lords Day" as it is referred to in scripture, doesn't denote Sunday as far as I can see. |
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